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#Post#: 16142--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Hanna
Date: October 14, 2018, 9:13 pm
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I agree with the post upthread that it’s just not technically
accurate to use gender in place of voice.
I suspect it’s just an error or written by someone who does not
write well, rather than someone sending a coded message. A man
(or someone that feels protective of men) could also take
offense that they used “ladies” but didn’t use the corollary
“gentlemen”. Or at the implication that one signing with a
higher voice is always a female.
#Post#: 16146--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Star Wars Fan
Date: October 15, 2018, 3:31 am
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--- Quote from: browzer11 link ---
>
> I think you're getting all worked up over a non-issue.
>
--- End Quote ---
I totally agree with you. I really think this is making a
mountain out of a mole hill.
Ed.
#Post#: 16155--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Irked Purist
Date: October 15, 2018, 8:52 am
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IMO this is quite a little 'mountain' to have made. TootsNYC
made a small correction to her copy of the song, and started a
discussion here; that doesn't register as 'all worked up'.
It would irritate me too... partly because I'm a fairly low
alto. Voice type nomenclature is the most correct and also the
easiest to understand.
Incidentally, I bloody loathe 'you guys' and will accept it as
a non-gendered term once it becomes acceptable in general
society to refer to a mixed group as 'girls' or 'ladies'. Which
is vanishingly rare, as it's only ever acceptable in one
direction.
#Post#: 16164--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: October 15, 2018, 10:49 am
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I'm not bothered by being referred to as a Lady. To me it shows
respect. Sure, mom's can throw out "act like a lady" but they
also throw out "act like a gentleman' too.
But I always use the nouns together so it would be more of an
annoyance because they don't fit together.
It's Ladies & Gentlemen, boys & girls, men & women, guys and
gals.
I'd never mix guys and girls, or gentlemen & women. It just
sounds off to me.
#Post#: 16172--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Hanna
Date: October 15, 2018, 11:43 am
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--- Quote from: Star Wars Fan link ---
>
> [quote author=browzer11 link=topic=737.msg16071#msg16071
date=1539473107]
> I think you're getting all worked up over a non-issue.
>
--- End Quote ---
I totally agree with you. I really think this is making a
mountain out of a mole hill.
Ed.
[/quote]
On language: Isn't this a funny phrase? I use it sometimes, too
but in reality moles can be really destructive to a lawn and
mountains are awesome.
I'd rather have mountains than molehills.
#Post#: 16203--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: GardenGal
Date: October 15, 2018, 3:00 pm
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--- Quote from: Thitpualso link ---
>
> [quote author=GardenGal link=topic=737.msg16123#msg16123
date=1539542037]
> I totally get your irritation, TootsNYC. It sounds
patronizing to me.
>
> My personal "ugh" moment is when the waiter/waitress says to
our table of only women, "What are you guys having?"
>
--- End Quote ---
‘Guys’ in reference to women doesn’t bother me. Back in the
late 1960s I attended a women’s college and it was standard to
go into a student lounge and greet the assembled group with, ‘Hi
guys! What’s on TV tonight?’
We all did it and nobody thought anything off about it.
[/quote]
Yes, I know it doesn't bother a lot of people, but can you go
into a room with all men and address them as Gals or Ladies or
some such?
#Post#: 16207--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Celestia
Date: October 15, 2018, 3:16 pm
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I'm going to try to jump on the train I saw online of bringing
back "cool cats" for the new 20s.
"Hey cool cats, how's it hanging?"
#Post#: 16214--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Aleko
Date: October 15, 2018, 4:19 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Actually, I think the Book of Common Prayer DOES say "husband'
--- End Quote ---
Revised versions mostly do; but the 1662 original says, "I
pronounce that they be man and wife together", for the good
17th-century reasons I gave earlier.
#Post#: 16215--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: bopper
Date: October 15, 2018, 4:26 pm
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I just was telling a man (who english is not his first language)
that he should not use "girls" when referring to female
coworkers...I was happy enough with ladies as at least that
indicates adult women
#Post#: 16220--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Thrabalen
Date: October 15, 2018, 5:24 pm
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The root of the issue is language and how it pertains to humans.
That is, the root of the word man is, well, Man. As is the root
of the word woman. Language is frequently used to dehumanize,
infantilize, or to dominate, and "females", "girls", "ladies"
and the like are examples of this. Calling a woman a female is
dehumanizing. A cat can be a female, a horse can be a female,
but neither can be a woman. Calling a woman a girl is
infantilizing. A girl is an immature woman, not possessing life
experience enough to be trusted to make her own decisions.
Calling a woman a "lady" is dominating. A lady is a woman who
acts in a specific way, deferential and polite to men (thus,
they are submissive).
An adult human female is a *woman*. They are of Man. They are
free to make their own decisions, and they are capable of being
rational, thinking people. They have value beyond their gender.
That is *not* to say that all people using the words this way
are doing this, merely they are repeating learned behavior.
Edited to add: When there is parity in terminology (i.e.,
"females and males", "girls and boys", "ladies and gentlemen"),
this obviously isn't as applicable!
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