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#Post#: 16069--------------------------------------------------
ladies and men
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: October 13, 2018, 6:20 pm
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As a word person, I confess I notice lack of parallelism.
And as a feminist, I often have a bad reaction to "lady," given
that it has often been used to shame women into being compliant.
Last week we started a new song in choir at my church, and it
begins with the female voices.
The label above the text didn't say "women"--which is what it
normally says. It said "ladies."
However, when the song switched registered, it said "men." Not
"gentlemen"; men.
It annoyed me. A lot. I was a little surprised how annoyed I
was. I think it's because my own experience has been that church
especially is used to pressure women into being acquiescent and
"polite" and "ladylike," while men aren't getting the same
pressure to be "gentlemen."
I feel like someone had to go out of their way to choose the
word "ladies" when they mean "soprano and alto" or "women's
voices."
To make myself feel better, I crossed itout on my copy and wrote
"women."
#Post#: 16071--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: browzer11
Date: October 13, 2018, 6:25 pm
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I think you're getting all worked up over a non-issue.
#Post#: 16084--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: RubyCat
Date: October 13, 2018, 8:03 pm
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It funny how we bring our own histories to the way we interpret
words. Where I grew up all the adult females were referred to as
ladies and many were anything but compliant. Over the years,
that custom somehow died off but it certainly has colored the
way I see the term "ladies."
The men were not usually referred to as "gentlemen" as far as I
recall. They were probably referred to as "guys."
#Post#: 16090--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: STiG
Date: October 13, 2018, 8:36 pm
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I don't tend to use the word 'lady'. Not because of any
feminist feeling or anything but because, when I use it or hear
it said, all I can hear is Jerry Lewis bellowing 'Laaaaady'.
And now I'm showing my age...
#Post#: 16099--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: LifeOnPluto
Date: October 13, 2018, 10:49 pm
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I get where you're coming from Toots. It slightly bugs me during
weddings when the Minister/celebrant says "I now pronounce you
man and wife" (why not HUSBAND and wife?) and "You may kiss the
bride" (why not "You may kiss each other"? Why is only the Groom
addressed?).
#Post#: 16100--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: browzer11
Date: October 13, 2018, 11:20 pm
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Pluto ... where we live, it's been Husband and Wife for years.
Also it's "you may kiss each other".
I guess it depends where you live.
#Post#: 16106--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: DebraDoda
Date: October 14, 2018, 8:24 am
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Along the same lines, I'm incredibly irritated when a police
officer is being interviewed on camera about something to do
with a criminal and s/he says, "This gentleman <performed
terrible crime>" and I think, if he did that, he's no gentleman!
Edited to add missing word.
#Post#: 16107--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Aleko
Date: October 14, 2018, 9:44 am
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Admittedly mine was a painfully genteel (British) girls' junior
school, and it was the early 1960s, but we were taught there
that although it was fine to call a man a man, it wasn't really
'nice' to describe an adult female human as a 'woman', and that
we should always say 'the lady who' rather than 'the woman who'.
Probably a holdover from the ancient Christian belief that Woman
in general was inferior and bad, and that only the noble blood
and genteel behaviour of 'ladies' made them acceptable.
--- Quote ---
> Why not HUSBAND and wife?
--- End Quote ---
Because the Anglican marriage service was originally written in
1662, when the word man still could mean either 'adult male' or
'husband' (as the German equivalent, Mann, still does), and the
word wife still could mean either simply 'adult female' (the
original meaning) or 'married woman'. It is lopsided now because
the meaning of both these words have drifted, but was perfectly
balanced back then.
#Post#: 16108--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: vintagegal
Date: October 14, 2018, 9:47 am
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I hate when people use the word "female" to refer to a woman, as
in, "My boyfriend was talking to some female.."
#Post#: 16113--------------------------------------------------
Re: ladies and men
DIR By: Thitpualso
Date: October 14, 2018, 10:47 am
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--- Quote from: vintagegal link ---
>
> I hate when people use the word "female" to refer to a woman,
as in, "My boyfriend was talking to some female.."
>
--- End Quote ---
Oh, yes. It makes my spine crawl when a police officer on TV
talks about the perp as a ‘female’. She’s human. She’s either
a woman or a girl. Very few non-human females commit crimes.
‘Gentleman’ in reference to a mugger also bothers me greatly.
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