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#Post#: 15488--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! UPDATE: Whew!
By: gramma dishes Date: October 5, 2018, 6:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ZekailleTasker link=topic=716.msg15477#msg15477
date=1538768983]
... But, as long as it's her grandkids, I am relieved and she
can read whatever she wants.
[/quote]
At least until her daughter or daughter-in-law decides
otherwise!
I can't help but wonder how long ago she taught. I started in
the mid 1960s and would not have considered reading something
with so much 'flavor' to my students, or my own personal kids
once I had them.
#Post#: 15490--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: SnappyLT Date: October 5, 2018, 7:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=OnyxBird link=topic=716.msg15199#msg15199
date=1538534598]
[quote author=SnappyLT link=topic=716.msg15176#msg15176
date=1538517317]
What do you men by "interfered with"?
You will go ahead and obtain the book by inter-library loan,
right, so you will not interfere with her ability to borrow the
book? I think you have to do that, ethically.
However, what is to stop you from pointing out to the patron the
possibility that the book may not be well-received, and why? As
long as the patron is the one who decides, I think you've
behaved ethically.
(Personally, I would strongly suggest the patron run that
particular title past the teacher just in case that teacher does
not vet the books in advance. If there is nothing objectionable
about the book, then there shouldn't be an objection to running
it past the teacher first, I think.)
[/quote]
In general (not speaking to this particular circumstance), I
think a librarian offering unsolicited commentary, especially
unsolicited negative commentary, on a patron's selections can
"interfere with" their use of the library even if the librarian
is only commenting rather than literally preventing them from
getting the book.
As an example, after "Brokeback Mountain" had come out and was a
topic of controversy, I decided to get the film out of the
library to see for myself what all the fuss was about. When I
went to the desk to check it out, the librarian said rather
pointedly "I don't think you'll enjoy this." She even didn't
bother to try to (non-judgmentally) tease out in conversation
why I was interested in the film, just jumped straight to
telling me whether she thought I'd like it or not (based on
what, I don't know--it wasn't a librarian I knew well). That was
more than a decade ago and I still remember which librarian it
was and how deeply uncomfortable it was to find that she was
scrutinizing my selections and passing judgement on my choices.
I ignored the comment and checked it out anyway. As it happened,
she was correct that I didn't "enjoy" the movie as
entertainment...but I hadn't really expected to and that was not
why I checked it out--I checked it out because I wanted to form
my own opinion of a controversial thing I'd heard about. Perhaps
more importantly, if I was checking it out because I thought I
would enjoy an R-rated gay cowboy romance, that was none of her
business and not something I should have felt shamed by the
librarian for. (And given the amount of controversy, it was
hardly plausible that I didn't know what kind of movie I was
checking out.)
That's not to say that comments from the librarian are never
appropriate, but (1) they should be for the purpose of helping
the patron, (2) they should be phrased in a non-judgmental way,
and (3) they're more appropriate when the librarian has an
existing friendly (or familial!) relationship with the patron.
In this case, giving Aunt Clara a heads-up that this book may be
more controversial than she thinks so she isn't blindsided when
she shows up to storytime would be beneficial to her. So
mentioning information/options she may not be aware of may be
appropriate, e.g., "Do you let the teacher know in advance what
you plan to read? I think those stories have become more
controversial for reading to children than they used to be" as
you look up the book might be appropriate. Or, e.g., if the book
she was trying to check out to read to the 2nd graders was a
picture book aimed at adults and not appropriate for kids ("Go
the F*** to Sleep" perhaps? ;D), "Just so you're aware, this
book is marketed towards adults and contains some [strong
language/violence/sex/whatever]. Is that what you're looking
for? We also have plenty of books written with 2nd graders in
mind." However, in general, it wouldn't IMO be appropriate for a
librarian to flat-out opine "I don't think that's an appropriate
book to read to children" to a patron who was just asking for
help finding the book and not opinions on its suitability.
[/quote]
OnyxBird,
I agree with you, that commenting upon a patron's selection can
be problematic.. and thank you for giving an excellent example
from your own experience to make your point!
It sounds like we both agree that a gentle head's up might be OK
in this particular case.
Snappy
#Post#: 16534--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! UPDATE: Whew!
By: myfamily Date: October 18, 2018, 2:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=gramma dishes link=topic=716.msg15488#msg15488
date=1538783586]
[quote author=ZekailleTasker link=topic=716.msg15477#msg15477
date=1538768983]
... But, as long as it's her grandkids, I am relieved and she
can read whatever she wants.
[/quote]
At least until her daughter or daughter-in-law decides
otherwise!
I can't help but wonder how long ago she taught. I started in
the mid 1960s and would not have considered reading something
with so much 'flavor' to my students, or my own personal kids
once I had them.
[/quote]
I would hope that her son or son-in-law would have opinions on
this as well.
#Post#: 16535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! UPDATE: Whew!
By: myfamily Date: October 18, 2018, 2:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting discussion. There is a high school in WI
that has cancelled their production of "To Kill a Mockingbird"
at the last minute, due to the use of the 'n' word. They claim
that due to copy right issues, they cannot just skip the word or
replace it, and many people are uncomfortable with it being used
at all. After many discussions with students and parents, they
have finally just pulled the plug on the production completely.
#Post#: 16581--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: DaDancingPsych Date: October 19, 2018, 8:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SnappyLT link=topic=716.msg15490#msg15490
date=1538786682]
[quote author=OnyxBird link=topic=716.msg15199#msg15199
date=1538534598]
[quote author=SnappyLT link=topic=716.msg15176#msg15176
date=1538517317]
What do you men by "interfered with"?
You will go ahead and obtain the book by inter-library loan,
right, so you will not interfere with her ability to borrow the
book? I think you have to do that, ethically.
However, what is to stop you from pointing out to the patron the
possibility that the book may not be well-received, and why? As
long as the patron is the one who decides, I think you've
behaved ethically.
(Personally, I would strongly suggest the patron run that
particular title past the teacher just in case that teacher does
not vet the books in advance. If there is nothing objectionable
about the book, then there shouldn't be an objection to running
it past the teacher first, I think.)
[/quote]
In general (not speaking to this particular circumstance), I
think a librarian offering unsolicited commentary, especially
unsolicited negative commentary, on a patron's selections can
"interfere with" their use of the library even if the librarian
is only commenting rather than literally preventing them from
getting the book.
As an example, after "Brokeback Mountain" had come out and was a
topic of controversy, I decided to get the film out of the
library to see for myself what all the fuss was about. When I
went to the desk to check it out, the librarian said rather
pointedly "I don't think you'll enjoy this." She even didn't
bother to try to (non-judgmentally) tease out in conversation
why I was interested in the film, just jumped straight to
telling me whether she thought I'd like it or not (based on
what, I don't know--it wasn't a librarian I knew well). That was
more than a decade ago and I still remember which librarian it
was and how deeply uncomfortable it was to find that she was
scrutinizing my selections and passing judgement on my choices.
I ignored the comment and checked it out anyway. As it happened,
she was correct that I didn't "enjoy" the movie as
entertainment...but I hadn't really expected to and that was not
why I checked it out--I checked it out because I wanted to form
my own opinion of a controversial thing I'd heard about. Perhaps
more importantly, if I was checking it out because I thought I
would enjoy an R-rated gay cowboy romance, that was none of her
business and not something I should have felt shamed by the
librarian for. (And given the amount of controversy, it was
hardly plausible that I didn't know what kind of movie I was
checking out.)
That's not to say that comments from the librarian are never
appropriate, but (1) they should be for the purpose of helping
the patron, (2) they should be phrased in a non-judgmental way,
and (3) they're more appropriate when the librarian has an
existing friendly (or familial!) relationship with the patron.
In this case, giving Aunt Clara a heads-up that this book may be
more controversial than she thinks so she isn't blindsided when
she shows up to storytime would be beneficial to her. So
mentioning information/options she may not be aware of may be
appropriate, e.g., "Do you let the teacher know in advance what
you plan to read? I think those stories have become more
controversial for reading to children than they used to be" as
you look up the book might be appropriate. Or, e.g., if the book
she was trying to check out to read to the 2nd graders was a
picture book aimed at adults and not appropriate for kids ("Go
the F*** to Sleep" perhaps? ;D), "Just so you're aware, this
book is marketed towards adults and contains some [strong
language/violence/sex/whatever]. Is that what you're looking
for? We also have plenty of books written with 2nd graders in
mind." However, in general, it wouldn't IMO be appropriate for a
librarian to flat-out opine "I don't think that's an appropriate
book to read to children" to a patron who was just asking for
help finding the book and not opinions on its suitability.
[/quote]
OnyxBird,
I agree with you, that commenting upon a patron's selection can
be problematic.. and thank you for giving an excellent example
from your own experience to make your point!
It sounds like we both agree that a gentle head's up might be OK
in this particular case.
Snappy
[/quote]
I totally agree that commentary should be tailored for every
situation. Had OnyxBird selected "Brokeback Mountain" and
commented, "I am really looking forward to learning more about
sheep herding" then I think it MAY be appropriate to mention
that the movie is not a documentary and to point the patron
towards the movie summary. But I think it would be equally ok to
allow the person to take their selection without any
redirecting. But when OnyxBird did not offer any explanation and
there was no prior relationship, I think it was overstepping. I
imagine that librarians have to perform this balancing act of
deciding what would be helpful to the patron.
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