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#Post#: 15187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: jazzgirl205 Date: October 2, 2018, 6:38 pm
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[quote author=lmyrs link=topic=716.msg15145#msg15145
date=1538507503]
Real question: How many of the people defending these stories on
these threads are black? It's easy to deny racism if you aren't
experiencing it. It's a blanket. "I'm not racist. I like these
stories. Ergo, these stories aren't racist." (I now feel the
need to explain that I am not calling anyone in this thread
racist. I am simply asking you to examine other points of view.)
There are a million stories out there. You don't have to choose
the series of stories that a white man appropriated from black
people in the wake of the civil war. You especially don't have
to read them in "black vernacular". That is, as a PP pointed
out, audio blackface.
[/quote]
Fair enough. For non-appropriated African-American folktales, I
suggest Virginia Hamilton's "The People Could Fly."
#Post#: 15199--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: OnyxBird Date: October 2, 2018, 9:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SnappyLT link=topic=716.msg15176#msg15176
date=1538517317]
What do you men by "interfered with"?
You will go ahead and obtain the book by inter-library loan,
right, so you will not interfere with her ability to borrow the
book? I think you have to do that, ethically.
However, what is to stop you from pointing out to the patron the
possibility that the book may not be well-received, and why? As
long as the patron is the one who decides, I think you've
behaved ethically.
(Personally, I would strongly suggest the patron run that
particular title past the teacher just in case that teacher does
not vet the books in advance. If there is nothing objectionable
about the book, then there shouldn't be an objection to running
it past the teacher first, I think.)
[/quote]
In general (not speaking to this particular circumstance), I
think a librarian offering unsolicited commentary, especially
unsolicited negative commentary, on a patron's selections can
"interfere with" their use of the library even if the librarian
is only commenting rather than literally preventing them from
getting the book.
As an example, after "Brokeback Mountain" had come out and was a
topic of controversy, I decided to get the film out of the
library to see for myself what all the fuss was about. When I
went to the desk to check it out, the librarian said rather
pointedly "I don't think you'll enjoy this." She even didn't
bother to try to (non-judgmentally) tease out in conversation
why I was interested in the film, just jumped straight to
telling me whether she thought I'd like it or not (based on
what, I don't know--it wasn't a librarian I knew well). That was
more than a decade ago and I still remember which librarian it
was and how deeply uncomfortable it was to find that she was
scrutinizing my selections and passing judgement on my choices.
I ignored the comment and checked it out anyway. As it happened,
she was correct that I didn't "enjoy" the movie as
entertainment...but I hadn't really expected to and that was not
why I checked it out--I checked it out because I wanted to form
my own opinion of a controversial thing I'd heard about. Perhaps
more importantly, if I was checking it out because I thought I
would enjoy an R-rated gay cowboy romance, that was none of her
business and not something I should have felt shamed by the
librarian for. (And given the amount of controversy, it was
hardly plausible that I didn't know what kind of movie I was
checking out.)
That's not to say that comments from the librarian are never
appropriate, but (1) they should be for the purpose of helping
the patron, (2) they should be phrased in a non-judgmental way,
and (3) they're more appropriate when the librarian has an
existing friendly (or familial!) relationship with the patron.
In this case, giving Aunt Clara a heads-up that this book may be
more controversial than she thinks so she isn't blindsided when
she shows up to storytime would be beneficial to her. So
mentioning information/options she may not be aware of may be
appropriate, e.g., "Do you let the teacher know in advance what
you plan to read? I think those stories have become more
controversial for reading to children than they used to be" as
you look up the book might be appropriate. Or, e.g., if the book
she was trying to check out to read to the 2nd graders was a
picture book aimed at adults and not appropriate for kids ("Go
the F*** to Sleep" perhaps? ;D), "Just so you're aware, this
book is marketed towards adults and contains some [strong
language/violence/sex/whatever]. Is that what you're looking
for? We also have plenty of books written with 2nd graders in
mind." However, in general, it wouldn't IMO be appropriate for a
librarian to flat-out opine "I don't think that's an appropriate
book to read to children" to a patron who was just asking for
help finding the book and not opinions on its suitability.
#Post#: 15208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: AmandaElizabeth Date: October 3, 2018, 12:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
see if you can get her a copy of ‘the long grass whispers’. It a
book of the
African stories that got transformed into the Bre Rabbit
stories. It stars Kalulu who is actually an african hare and
offers an insight into the traditional African way of living. I
loved it as a child as it reflected the culture I saw around me.
#Post#: 15247--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: bopper Date: October 3, 2018, 10:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, when my DD was little she loved Britney
Spears. Maybe she was 8 or so. We were looking at the newest CD
and one of the workers at the CD store (remember those) said
that it might not be appropriate for an 8 year old. I was
appreciative of the heads up.
#Post#: 15253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: Hanna Date: October 3, 2018, 11:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=lmyrs link=topic=716.msg15145#msg15145
date=1538507503]
Real question: How many of the people defending these stories on
these threads are black? It's easy to deny racism if you aren't
experiencing it. It's a blanket. "I'm not racist. I like these
stories. Ergo, these stories aren't racist." (I now feel the
need to explain that I am not calling anyone in this thread
racist. I am simply asking you to examine other points of view.)
There are a million stories out there. You don't have to choose
the series of stories that a white man appropriated from black
people in the wake of the civil war. You especially don't have
to read them in "black vernacular". That is, as a PP pointed
out, audio blackface.
[/quote]
I agree with this - going in both directions.
I haven't read or seen those tales in years and my memory is
only that as a child I saw and liked the (I guess it was Song of
the South) movie on TV. Am going to see if I can find that
again and am curious to watch and see how I will feel about it
now.
I just googled and found that there was a 2006 movie called The
Adventures of Brer Rabbit voiced by Wayne Brady, Nick Cannon,
Danny Glover, D.L. Hughley and Wanda Sykes. Hard to imagine
that they would participate in something they felt was racist.
I like the idea of suggesting the other books mentioned here.
#Post#: 15256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: Thitpualso Date: October 3, 2018, 11:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Once, I did have to warn a reader about her research choices.
She was writing a major paper for a college course and was
enamored with the works of a particular author. She planned on
using his research as the basis for her paper. I happened to
know her professor for this course. I also knew that he hated
this author with the fury of a thousand suns.
It only seemed fair to warn her before she got too far into her
research.
#Post#: 15269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: NFPwife Date: October 3, 2018, 1:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Thitpualso link=topic=716.msg15256#msg15256
date=1538585231]
Once, I did have to warn a reader about her research choices.
She was writing a major paper for a college course and was
enamored with the works of a particular author. She planned on
using his research as the basis for her paper. I happened to
know her professor for this course. I also knew that he hated
this author with the fury of a thousand suns.
It only seemed fair to warn her before she got too far into her
research.
[/quote]
That was so kind of you! I bet the student is perpetually
grateful.
To the OP, I like the ideas to gently caution with zero judgment
about the choice- "Popular opinion and acceptance of this book
has shifted a bit over the years, you might want to run this
choice past the teacher," and provide the alternate book ideas.
#Post#: 15284--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: chigger Date: October 3, 2018, 5:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=jazzgirl205 link=topic=716.msg15047#msg15047
date=1538441640]
About 10 years ago, I read Uncle Remus and the Virginia Hamilton
stories to children. Not only that, we acted them out. Here's
what I did: since I am a white Southerner living in the South, I
read the stories in a rural white Southern vernacular. After
all, these 200 yo stories were inter-racially passed along for
generations. The first time I heard most of these stories was
from my father (whose accent was a cross between Foghorn Leghorn
and Amos 'n' Andy). I feel these stories are important because
they deal with life issues and the characters are neither black
nor white, but animals. If they had to be indicative of a
culture, it would be one of rural poverty regardless of race. I
think these stories should remain part of our living literary
heritage.
That said, a white woman trying to imitate African-American
vernacular is audio blackface. Explain to your aunt that she
needs to read it the same way she reads other folktales.
[/quote]
These stories are actually very rascist! I think it would be
approprate for older children, for discussion. However, we are
discussing younger kids, and I don't think thet can understand
the nuances' especail
ly if they are brown.
#Post#: 15286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: guest657 Date: October 3, 2018, 6:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hanna link=topic=716.msg15253#msg15253
date=1538583647]
[quote author=lmyrs link=topic=716.msg15145#msg15145
date=1538507503]
Real question: How many of the people defending these stories on
these threads are black? It's easy to deny racism if you aren't
experiencing it. It's a blanket. "I'm not racist. I like these
stories. Ergo, these stories aren't racist." (I now feel the
need to explain that I am not calling anyone in this thread
racist. I am simply asking you to examine other points of view.)
There are a million stories out there. You don't have to choose
the series of stories that a white man appropriated from black
people in the wake of the civil war. You especially don't have
to read them in "black vernacular". That is, as a PP pointed
out, audio blackface.
[/quote]
I agree with this - going in both directions.
I haven't read or seen those tales in years and my memory is
only that as a child I saw and liked the (I guess it was Song of
the South) movie on TV. Am going to see if I can find that
again and am curious to watch and see how I will feel about it
now.
I just googled and found that there was a 2006 movie called The
Adventures of Brer Rabbit voiced by Wayne Brady, Nick Cannon,
Danny Glover, D.L. Hughley and Wanda Sykes. Hard to imagine
that they would participate in something they felt was racist.
I like the idea of suggesting the other books mentioned here.
[/quote]
The 2006 film (and the book and play that preceded it) were
created specifically to reclaim the stories as part of
African-American heritage, by removing the slave-nostalgia and
demeaning stereotypes, and putting them more in line with the
original African source material.
It wasn't made because the Uncle Remus wasn't racist. It was
made exactly *because* the Uncle Remus book was intensely
racist.
Here's an article from the time the movie was released, to give
some useful context:
HTML http://www.blackfilm.com/20060324/reviews/brerrabbit.shtml
#Post#: 15293--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zip-a-dee-doo-dah-zip-a-dee-yay! Can I tell the patron this
is a bad idea?
By: gramma dishes Date: October 3, 2018, 7:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NFPwife link=topic=716.msg15269#msg15269
date=1538593174]
... To the OP, I like the ideas to gently caution with zero
judgment about the choice- "Popular opinion and acceptance of
this book has shifted a bit over the years, you might want to
run this choice past the teacher," and provide the alternate
book ideas.
[/quote]
Yes, please. I beg of you. From the viewpoint of a (retired)
second grade teacher who truly loved every one of my students
and also from my viewpoint as a mother and grandmother, please
use wording similar to what NFPwife suggests to discourage
lovely, well meaning Aunt Clara from doing something that will
put EVERYBODY in an embarrassingly bad spot.
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