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#Post#: 15015--------------------------------------------------
Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental unit
By: nuit93 Date: October 1, 2018, 4:48 pm
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Dealing with some family issues, not sure if I should go full
no-contact with a parent.
About three years ago, I made the decision to go back to school
to pursue a second degree in a STEM field. Most people in my
life have been extremely supportive of this, with one exception:
my biological father.
We aren't close. My parents divorced when I was 6. I was a bit
of a socially awkward kid growing up, and for the majority of my
pre-teen to early teen years I really didn't have any friends at
all or anything even closely resembling a social life. I tried
not to let it get to me, and since school was something I was
good at, I threw myself into that and took some pride in being a
good student. When my dad would make his weekly phone call (he
lived several hundred miles away so regular visits weren't a
thing), he never seemed to care about how excited I was about
doing well in school. I would hear things like "but don't you
do anything interesting?" or "why don't you get invited to
parties?". I found out he was also talking smack about me to my
younger, more socially adept sibling, who would smirkily tell me
things like "Dad says you're a loser who needs to get a life"
(note: as this was over twenty years ago and she's grown up a
great deal since, I don't hold this against her). Hearing that
as a twelve year old who already knew she was something of an
outcast at her school was painful enough. Having it compounded
like that stung. Having my then-stepfather (mom's second
husband, my bio dad was her first husband) tell me what a
horrible child I was for not wanting to spend more time with my
dad (gee, I wonder why) only served to make me feel even more
like garbage.
My life got a little better as a teenager and young adult, and
when I started doing things like dating he actually took some
tiny semblance of interest in my life. But frankly, the damage
had been done and I wasn't feeling up to making him that big a
part of my life. He never cared about what I was studying in
college, only that I was dating and doing "normal" person
things. He didn't come to my college graduation (claiming I
hadn't invited him or said anything to him about it, even though
there were multiple people in the room when I called him to
invite him to it), or even acknowledge it with a card until a
couple years later when my sister graduated and he sent her a
card with a large check in it...and then he remembered to send
me one too.
Fast forward to 2016. I'm 35, and upon realizing that my
current job was the very definition of "dead-end", I bailed and
started going back to school. I took mostly classes towards my
major (data analytics) but also a couple classes in the
performing arts, just for fun. So many people in my life
(husband, friends, most of the family save for the
above-mentioned bio dad) have been amazingly supportive and
encouraging. Bio dad? Every time we've talked he's managed to
get some dig in about how "crazy" I am for going back to school
"at my age", and how "I must be the oldest person in all my
classes!" (I'm not, but why does it even matter?).
At this point we only talk a handful of times per year, which is
fine by me: I can only take so many jokes about my age and how
'crazy' I am for pursuing a more lucrative degree. I try to cut
phone calls short with "hey, so I've got a LOT of homework I
still need to do tonight..." but he's never able to take the
hint and will keep finding something else to talk about. The
last time we talked was on my birthday, which happened to be the
day after I started a full time job I'd really been hoping to
get. It's a great opportunity: an entry level position where
they specifically wanted someone who was still learning a bunch
of the material, and they'll be increasing my salary after I
finish my degree. Which means working full time and taking one
course at a time online (or maybe eventually evenings but it's
kind of a terrible commute), while learning all sorts of great
things on the job as well.
It's not easy: there's a steep learning curve and I honestly
feel rather overwhelmed at times. My anxiety has been
heightened lately by that last call I had with my dad, wherein
he just WOULD NOT shut up about how crazy I was for taking on so
much work "at my age" and how I was going to "burn myself out".
This time, he added on "so, when are YOU gonna have some
babies?" (my sister is expecting her second kid), which struck
me as bizarre seeing as how I just turned 37, insulting given
that he had just been told ten minutes earlier in the
conversation that I had just started a new job and was still
working on my degree (come on, aren't those things important?),
and altogether condescending.
There's no talking to my bio-dad about stopping his behavior.
Every time it's brought up, he gets all "well, I'm just
concerned about you and I'm allowed to be, I'm your father!".
He got grumpy when I wouldn't tell him what my salary was (I
wouldn't tell anyone else in my family either, if you don't pay
my bills or rent you don't need to know what I make), and again
when I wouldn't give a firm answer about when I was having
babies. He kept on that one with "I'm your father, I'm allowed
to ask!" and I wasn't brave enough to say "actually, no you're
not and you need to back off". I've talked to my sister about
how frustrated I've been by his behavior and she's sympathetic
(her kids will only know him as Mr. So-and-So, not Grandpa
So-and-so, she doesn't want them thinking of him as a
grandparent), but she also still talks to him more than I do.
I'm worried he'll just start getting nastier to her if I go full
cut direct, but she's had no issues hanging up on him in the
past when he was being a jerk. I've never been quite that
brave.
I feel like I'm kind of at my wits' end. Instinctively, I
should probably have given him the cut direct a long time ago.
Perhaps it would be polite to give him a warning that he's on
the verge of being cut off...but this has been going on over 25
years now. I don't know if he deserves any more chances.
#Post#: 15024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: TaurusGirl Date: October 1, 2018, 5:30 pm
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*virtual hugs*
nuit93, I am so frustrated just reading your story!
As a random stranger on the internet, here is my 0,02$ - you owe
this man nothing. Sure he contributed to your existence, in a
scientific fashion, but from what you've said here he hasn't
expressed any interest in you as a person unless you're talking
about something he cares about. You don't deserve the stress
and frustration that seems to come with interacting with him.
In your place, I would give no warning, and just stop responding
to contact. You have other things to spend your energy on - you
have so many wonderful things happening, and that negativity is
unnecessary and unhelpful.
#Post#: 15025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: guest657 Date: October 1, 2018, 5:30 pm
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I'm sorry your bio dad is such a garbage person.
In my opinion, he's not worth the effort of a warning or any
type of "formal" or official cut-direct.
You can just not answer his calls, or if you answer, say "Sorry,
can't talk right now. Bye!"
I had a Horrible Relative I did this with a few years ago. Every
once in a while, I'd send her a card with some photos if there
was a holiday or family event. If she sent me a card, I'd open
it - it was usually just the same kind of personal news.
This works well with shallow self-involved people, in particular
- which makes me think it would work well with your biodad. He
doesn't have a deep connection with you. You aren't involved in
each other's lives on a regular basis.
By not speaking on the phone, you don't have to hear the
negativity. And since you rarely see him anyway, it's kind of
overkill to make it into a Situation.
It's unlikely he'd be really persistent in trying to contact
you, or send "flying monkeys" after you, since it sounds like
your sister has no problem telling him where to get off.
I think the easiest thing to do here is....nothing.
#Post#: 15033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: nuit93 Date: October 1, 2018, 6:18 pm
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Thank you for your responses! I used to keep asking myself "is
he really that bad?", and honestly it helps a lot to hear that
I'm not overreacting.
I was reading through some other posts and there was talk of an
"information diet". He's been on one for most of my adult life.
I've done a lot of really neat things over the years, and
yet...I just never felt compelled to talk to him about any of
it. He doesn't get to know about the amazing person I've become
in spite of him.
At times I wondered if I should tell him when I got married, but
I didn't want him at the wedding (and neither did my mom). That
was three years ago and while I used to question if I should
have told him or not, at this point I feel quite justified in
never doing so. We don't even live in the same country and he
doesn't drive anymore. I have very little incentive to go see
him and probably never will again.
I guess now it's a matter of not clamming up the next time I
talk to him. Or just committing to not picking up the phone.
Though there is one other thing I'm not sure how to handle: for
Christmas and birthdays, he sends a card with a money order for
$100USD in it (he's not in the U.S., I am). On one hand, my
sister and I are in our 30's and both have incomes of our own.
On the other...he still owes our mom many thousands in back
child support that she long since gave up hope of ever seeing
and stopped trying to get years ago. Historically, I've
deposited the check and called him to say thank you (wherein
he'll remind me to use the money for something fun and not
'bills or rent or books or anything like that'). If I'm going
no-contact, do I send them "return to sender"? Or do I deposit
the check and not acknowledge it, in the hopes that eventually
he'll stop sending them?
#Post#: 15035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: guest657 Date: October 1, 2018, 6:55 pm
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***Edited since I can't delete. ****
Sorry, my reply seems to have double-posted. Some phone glitch I
guess.
#Post#: 15036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: guest657 Date: October 1, 2018, 7:02 pm
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[quote author=nuit93 link=topic=715.msg15033#msg15033
date=1538435902]
Thank you for your responses! I used to keep asking myself "is
he really that bad?", and honestly it helps a lot to hear that
I'm not overreacting.
I was reading through some other posts and there was talk of an
"information diet". He's been on one for most of my adult life.
I've done a lot of really neat things over the years, and
yet...I just never felt compelled to talk to him about any of
it. He doesn't get to know about the amazing person I've become
in spite of him.
At times I wondered if I should tell him when I got married, but
I didn't want him at the wedding (and neither did my mom). That
was three years ago and while I used to question if I should
have told him or not, at this point I feel quite justified in
never doing so. We don't even live in the same country and he
doesn't drive anymore. I have very little incentive to go see
him and probably never will again.
I guess now it's a matter of not clamming up the next time I
talk to him. Or just committing to not picking up the phone.
Though there is one other thing I'm not sure how to handle: for
Christmas and birthdays, he sends a card with a money order for
$100USD in it (he's not in the U.S., I am). On one hand, my
sister and I are in our 30's and both have incomes of our own.
On the other...he still owes our mom many thousands in back
child support that she long since gave up hope of ever seeing
and stopped trying to get years ago. Historically, I've
deposited the check and called him to say thank you (wherein
he'll remind me to use the money for something fun and not
'bills or rent or books or anything like that'). If I'm going
no-contact, do I send them "return to sender"? Or do I deposit
the check and not acknowledge it, in the hopes that eventually
he'll stop sending them?
[/quote]
I'd deposit the check and mail a thank-you note. That fulfils
your obligation.
If he's trying to buy your time on the phone, then he'll stop
sending them. And if so your obligation goes away entirely.
If you feel guilty keeping the money, spend it on your mom.
#Post#: 15067--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: Aleko Date: October 2, 2018, 1:53 am
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Second everybody who has said that announcing a cut-off is
unnecessary drama. If you didn't even let him know you were
getting / had got married, you have clearly stopped making
contact from your side years ago. And so long as his calls to
you aren't in themselves over-frequent, unpleasant or harassing,
there's really no need to tell him to stop. Yes, it seems that
he will forever hold the opinion that you should be having
babies instead of this stupid getting-educated and
having-a-career malarkey, but you don't need to let that upset
you. After all, if you had an elderly aunt or family friend who
routinely told you that kind of stuff, it would be mildly
annoying but you surely wouldn't stress about it. Just put his
comments in that kind of box. After all, he has not lived with
you and thus actually known you well as a person since you were
6; his opinion on what's right for you is valueless.
And I totally agree with Anon4Now about his checks. Cash them,
send a civil thank-you note, and either spend the money on your
mom or outright pay it on to her. He owes money to her, and
that's the only way she's going to get any of it - if you were
to refuse it and ask him to send it to her, he surely wouldn't.
#Post#: 15077--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: Chez Miriam Date: October 2, 2018, 4:20 am
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He chose to stop being your dad when you were 6 - maybe didn't
choose to stop being with your mum/living with you, but he
certainly chose not to send child support!
So you've paid back those six years parenting he did (with
interest!) by now - please allow yourself to stop feeling
guilty. Had your mum gone down the sperm donor route, you
wouldn't feel you owed that guy anything would you? [Serious
question, not trying to make a point.] If the answer is "no",
your biodad is six years more involved in your raising, but not
the rest of the time he wasn't paying child support.
When I'd finally had enough of my mum criticising me I started
putting the phone down on her each and every time she made a
critical comment. No warnings, just *click*. If she phoned
back, I told her it was because I wasn't a horrid person [her
default statement to me always has been "now don't be horrid"],
and I wasn't going to listen to someone tell me I was. If she
played nice, I spoke to her, if she wanted me to agree that it
was all my fault, phone went down again. The more she blamed
me, the less frequently I took her calls; I made a rule that I
didn't 'have' to speak to her until I'd got over my hurt/anger
at the way she spoke to me, so if she was particularly
spiteful/snarky, it could be six weeks before she spoke to more
than the answer machine.
Took a few years, but now our relationship is better than it has
ever been.
Adding my vote to thank you notes for any monies received, and
go low contact or cut him off as you feel. Sometimes just
repeatedly putting down the phone can be so empowering that you
no longer feel you want to take the "nuclear option" - that's
still available, though. Your sister [who has a better
relationship with him] puts down the phone, so why shouldn't
you? And any course of action can be changed later: Cut Direct
can be mended, talking can be ceased, contact can be increased
or decreased. Whatever decision you make will not be the wrong
choice: it will be the right choice for you now, but you can
change that at any point you want.
I know you didn't ask for them, but {{hugs}} anyway, because
feeling like that sucks.
Remember: you don't owe him.
#Post#: 15141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: Chez Miriam Date: October 2, 2018, 2:01 pm
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[quote author=Lexophile link=topic=715.msg15129#msg15129
date=1538502683]
[quote author=nuit93 link=topic=715.msg15033#msg15033
date=1538435902]
Thank you for your responses! I used to keep asking myself "is
he really that bad?", and honestly it helps a lot to hear that
I'm not overreacting.
[/quote]
OP-
Words cannot express how much my heart goes out to you right
now. I "amputated" both of my parents about 2 years ago. It was
scary, and it went against everything they ever taught me when I
was growing up, but it has paid off many-fold.
If you are asking yourself over and over again if things are
really that bad, then the answer is yes. I had no idea that what
I experienced as a child was abusive. The excuse that "he's
family" starts out thin in your case because he really kinda
wasn't. I let things go on way too long with my parents because
they were my family. They made the choice to ignore me after I
clearly told them over and over again to stop their toxic
behavior towards me and my DH. They finally burned my fuse down
to the nub, so I cut them loose. Honestly? I think that's really
when my life began.
You will be stunned at how liberating it is to not put up with
this anymore. Think about all the anxiety you feel just thinking
about talking to him. Then imagine how good it will feel when
that's gone. You do not have to tolerate that behavior. From
anyone.
[/quote]
Blue bolded: it took a surprising amount of time for a
counsellor to convince me that just because I wasn't hit (very
often) as a child, it didn't mean what happened to me wasn't
abusive.
The red bolded really sums it up for me - thank you so much for
writing that, Lexophile.
#Post#: 15143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Not sure if I should go full no-contact with my parental uni
t
By: Hmmm Date: October 2, 2018, 2:08 pm
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I can't tell you how much admire you to take on doing a second
degree and really impressed you've chosen Data Analytics. That
is not an easy program. I have an employe who is starting his
masters in data analytics and I hear about the time and effort
needed.
I agree with others that I don't see what value you are getting
from your relationship with your bio dad. I don't think you need
to do an announcement that you plan to essentially cut him out
of your life. He won't accept that decision anyway, based on how
you've described him.
Just don't have time to talk. Answer every 3rd or so call. Be
the inquisitor in the calls. With every question, turn it back
to him.
"Oh, not much going on here. How is the weather there?"
"No, we haven't made plans for the holidays. What are your
plans?"
"I heard about X happening in your area. How is that affecting
you?"
"We had a quiet weekend. What did you do?"
"You know, I haven't' heard you mention Aunt Isabelle recently.
How is she?"
And then end the call.
"Sorry for having to cut the call short but I have rice on the
stove I need to take off."
"Hey, I'll talk with you next month, but someone is at the
door."
"Great talking to you, but I have an appointment I'm late for."
This man is basically a stranger who didn't support you
emotionally or financially as a child. You owe him nothing.
Treat him as that distant relative that you don't want to insult
but just don't have time for.
I agree that with the gifts, I'd start sending a thank you
letter instead of calling. Or get even less personal and send an
e-card as a thank you to his email account.
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