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#Post#: 12426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: AtHomeRose
Date: August 27, 2018, 3:53 pm
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Hmmm, I understand the perspective of accepting the gift and
then getting rid of it once it is yours. I guess this works for
some families, I have even done it for things I have been given
but I don’t do it when it is gifts for my kids. I don’t do it
for two reasons with kid gifts, the first is it just seems
really disingenuous to take a gift knowing it is going to get
dropped into the bin (either trash or goodwill) within the hour.
I hate to pretend we are going to take it and like it when it
won’t even be entering our house.
The second reason is logistical often people who offer to give
my kids gifts want to present the gift to the kid the next time
they see them or will be asking the kid about the gift when they
see them. If I have already said something positive about the
gift the giver will be expecting a positive acceptance/
interaction with the kid getting the gift, this seems like
double lying to the giver. It also means I will have to manage
my kid’s reaction to the gift and the givers feelings all at the
same time. Of course spontaneous and unannounced gifts are given
and we handle those as they come up and have helped our kids
handle them. But if I have pre-waning of a gift we can’t have I
much rather turn it down right away then let the whole thing
drag on.
I think both methods are reasonably polite in a difficult
situation. I like Aleko much rather know up front and decide
what happens to a rejected gift than find out later it was
disposed of.
For those who mention that turning down a gift for a kid might
reduce the number of gifts offered, I understand that might be a
consequence and am fine with it. I have only really seen that
happen for our family once, I have a friend who used to like to
buy little things for my kids after she offered a few things
that we could not accept she has stopped buying things and now
offers to take the kids out for ice cream or to the park for
special little treats. I think it is a great change.
#Post#: 12647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: SnappyLT
Date: August 29, 2018, 11:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
NFPWife, I agree with your thinking. Anna is unreasonable. She
is way too controlling.
So, I'm on your side, OP.
Where I disagree a tiny bit is with you taking Anna's phone and
writing a reply as if it was coming from Anna.
Oh - I agree with what you pretended Anna said! Your reply was
far more gracious than Anna had been. It was a good reply.
But it wasn't really from Anna - it was from you. I get the
sense that Anna did not learn from the experience and plans to
continue to be controlling. I'm just not sure I'd have crossed
that boundary and typed a reply pretending to be Anna.
#Post#: 12655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: Contrarian
Date: August 29, 2018, 1:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Etiquette is so confusing these days while living in a
multicultural, multi-class, post modern world.
I hope the academics among you will forgive my misuse of terms!
I was going to say anti-class, but that doesn’t express what I
mean. My point being we live in an etiquette salad where class,
culture, and ever changing values create so much confusion, some
for good, some for bad, amongst us all, yet we humans tend to
feel deeply about our values with the added idea that we must
respect those of others. When ideas clash, what are we to do?
Always see the others view? State our own and leave it at that?
Does it matter if some of us get upset with the social habits of
others?
I wanted to say at the beginning that we, as a society, should
just have some agreed upon rules regarding gifts, but then I
realized that would mean a “Roberts rules of order” type of
guide which, along with rationing cookbooks and the 1920’s Miss
Bee’s guide to etiquette, is reserved for the nostalgia junkies.
(I’ve made up the book name but I think most of you see my
point).
There are some people who see gifts as a special, meaningful
expression of love and caring. I think NPW called it her “love
language”. And some people view gifts as a government block of
cheese. The government block of cheese is for the frugal,
practical socialist who sees the VALUE in everything. This
person can not attach sentimental value to a gift. Only a value
of labour or money.
The only reason a person would reject a frivolous gift of
novelty socks and suggest that the value of practical socks be
given to a mother who would in turn “gift” the completely
practical socks to the children, (Costco socks being both
financially and labour-like practical via the matching someone
mentioned) is because you are dealing with a person with whom
thrift, practicality, labour and waste are immensely important.
This is a class, cultural and personality ideology. It doesn’t
mean the person wouldn’t actually value the gift, or not value
the thought but the person does not value frivolousness. So, I
would suggest this is a clash of values rather than a
disrespectful action.
I am a huge WW2 buff! I cook based on rationing in the UK during
this time, I sew my own clothes in what I imagine is a
modernized version of the styles from 1940 to 45, I love the
“use it up, wear it out, make do or do without mentality of
life...
However, that is why gifts are so special to me. I think gifts
should be thoughtful expressions of love and caring. They should
be outside of this “practical” ideal. If I could write the
handbook on gifts, I would state that Costco socks are good and
practical but seen as a donation. And donations are good and
valuable. But a gift is something that should be considered
special, outside of practical, some chocolate, some special
clothing you wouldn’t normally be allowed, a trip to the beach,
a nice dinner out, a pretty piece of jewelry, a funky pair of
socks, silk, a peach when they are hard to get, or blueberries
when they are in season. It’s not the monetary value, or even
the labour that makes a gift a gift, it’s that it’s special in
some way. It’s something a person wouldn’t practically get, and
something no one would practically refuse.
If I wrote the book, all gifts would be thoughtful and not a
pre-arranged business deal (come sa, my husband, it’s your
birthday what do you want is it this much send me the link you
don’t expect wrapping do you) all gifts would be graciously
accepted and all gifts would be re-gifted if considered
inappropriate, in a thoughtful and gracious manner.
But my husband disagrees. I feel like I miss a chunk of
Christmas when I negotiate the business of gifts with him. He
only wants expensive, tech, specific gifts which when I try to
get for him he opens and immediately looks online to see if
there is something newer and better to exchange it for.
A lot of people like cash, a lot love socks, some want gift
cards from specific stores and would roll their eyes at the
silly gift of “Catcher in The Rye” that doesn’t even have the
iconic red cover, but has a new artist book cover and the fact
that a person remembered you stated it was a favourite a year
ago is meaningless.
But I live among them. They are not bad people, just people with
different values. So, as we navigate through this post modern,
multi-cultural, multi-class world, we have to decide...who will
we enjoy the art of gifting with, and who will just engage in a
mutual exercise of disappointments...and go on from there.
#Post#: 12664--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: LurkingGurl
Date: August 29, 2018, 4:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Contrarian link ---
>
>
> The only reason a person would reject a frivolous gift of
novelty socks and suggest that the value of practical socks be
given to a mother who would in turn “gift” the completely
practical socks to the children, (Costco socks being both
financially and labour-like practical via the matching someone
mentioned) is because you are dealing with a person with whom
thrift, practicality, labour and waste are immensely important.
This is a class, cultural and personality ideology. It doesn’t
mean the person wouldn’t actually value the gift, or not value
the thought but the person does not value frivolousness. So, I
would suggest this is a clash of values rather than a
disrespectful action.
>
--- End Quote ---
There really is nothing more disrespectful or greedy than to
think that you should have a say in how someone else spends
their money when they have bought you a gift. And that's
exactly what she's doing.
She can be as thrifty as she wants with her own money. But, to
suggest that the gift giver go back and try again and spend the
money the way the mother would spend her own money is
ridiculous!
There seems to be a lot of that nowadays. I've come across
people who do that in my regular life. Giving them a gift is
somehow an opportunity for them to go shopping on your dime. It
doesn't matter that they are doing it to be "thrifty" or to make
your dime somehow go farther.
It's their dime. They spent it. Their decision.
Be grateful someone thought enough of you to spend their hard
earned money at all!
#Post#: 12729--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: BeagleMommy
Date: August 30, 2018, 2:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
We used to go round and round with my SIL over stuff like this.
She is very practical and wants only items that are along the
lines of J. Crew or Lands' End clothing. Me? I tend to be a
bit...different.
I would ask my nieces what they wanted for birthday or Christmas
gifts and, if it wasn't out of my price range or dangerous,
would get it for them. I always checked to make sure
BeagleBrother and SIL were not getting the item.
One year, Oldest Niece wanted a Britney Spears doll. I asked
BeagleBrother and SIL what they were getting her and no one
mentioned the Britney doll. I bought it and ON loved it and
declared me "best aunt ever".
Turns out SIL didn't want to buy it for her because SIL hated
Britney Spears. ::)
OP, Anna was wrong. Plain and simple.
#Post#: 12805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: Judecat
Date: August 31, 2018, 4:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts on a donation as opposed to a gift.
When my goddaughter's parents split up, and her mother didn't
have much money, I bought the child school clothes that her
mother and I picked out at Target. I didn't consider that a
gift, that was helping out with expenses for the child that
would have to be spent anyway. This was stuff that had to be
bought so the child wouldn't have to go to school nekkid. And
that stuff has been paid back in kind over the years, as our
financial positions have changed. If my underwear gets raggy,
either mom or now grown daughter will get me a pack of undies.
That's not a gift. that's me being S and A's favorite charity.
On the other hand, the neo-hippy embroidered jeans, tie-dyed
shirt and fringe vest I added on my own was a gift -- it was
something special that the child didn't strictly need but I knew
she would like.
#Post#: 12821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: Venus193
Date: September 1, 2018, 8:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Anna has more issues than The New Yorker.
I would have cut her off my gift list after the coffee gift
card. Even my mother wasn't that nit-picky about gifts.
#Post#: 12822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: September 1, 2018, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Uncle Rupert link ---
>
> Anna is not “pragmatic,” she’s boorish and rude. If I were
Beth, I would never buy another gift for anyone in the whole
damn family.
>
--- End Quote ---
And this is my opinion as well.
Plus, Anna is controlling.
It's just so phenomenally rude. Especially the "take them back
and give me the money"!!!
If you ever get the chance to address this again, there's this
point (which I may have made more eloquently elsewhere on this
site):
Gifts are about creating relationships. They are NOT about the
exchange of goods or monetary value--that is "commerce."
When Beth bought the socks, she was trying to send a message
to the kids: "I think about you. I want you to have fun or cool
things, and I want you to remember me, and how much I like you,
when you use those fun or cool things."
It's important that parents allow space in their children's
lives for those sorts of relationships with OTHER grownups.
I like Judecat's point about the difference between a donation
and gift.
(I've sometimes made a distinction that financial help to my
niece was a grant, not a gift and not a loan--it had strings,
but it didn't need to be paid back; it was given with the
express purpose of achieving a goal.)
#Post#: 12823--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: September 1, 2018, 10:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Contrarian link ---
>
> Etiquette is so confusing these days while living in a
multicultural, multi-class, post modern world.
>
--- End Quote ---
There are many, many etiquette issues which are NOT different
from class to class, or culture to culture.
Gift-giving is among them--and certainly THIS issue.
--- Quote ---
>
> Does it matter if some of us get upset with the social habits
of others?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, it does--because social habits are a form of communication.
And the covetousness that Anna displayed is creating damage to
the relationships
--- Quote ---
>
> I wanted to say at the beginning that we, as a society, should
just have some agreed upon rules regarding gifts, but then I
realized that would mean a “Roberts rules of order” type of
guide which, along with rationing cookbooks and the 1920’s Miss
Bee’s guide to etiquette, is reserved for the nostalgia junkies.
(I’ve made up the book name but I think most of you see my
point).
>
--- End Quote ---
We have tons of etiquette books already. There ARE agreed-upon
rules regarding gifts. Of course there will always be peole who
break rules, as Anna has done, but that doesn't mean those rules
aren't out there to fine.
--- Quote ---
> There are some people who see gifts as a special, meaningful
expression of love and caring. I think NPW called it her “love
language”. [b]And some people view gifts as a government block
of cheese. [/b] The government block of cheese is for the
frugal, practical socialist who sees the VALUE in everything.
This person can not attach sentimental value to a gift. Only a
value of labour or money.
>
--- End Quote ---
And those people in the bold are WRONG.
--- Quote ---
> The only reason a person would reject a frivolous gift of
novelty socks and suggest that the value of practical socks be
given to a mother who would in turn “gift” the completely
practical socks to the children, (Costco socks being both
financially and labour-like practical via the matching someone
mentioned) is because you are dealing with a person with whom
thrift, practicality, labour and waste are immensely important.
This is a class, cultural and personality ideology. It doesn’t
mean the person wouldn’t actually value the gift, or not value
the thought but the person does not value frivolousness. So, I
would suggest this is a clash of values rather than a
disrespectful action.
>
--- End Quote ---
I disagree. I think that someone with that focus on practicality
over frivolousness has an obligation to get that aside for
gifts. And the Etiquette from WWII would require that as well.
--- Quote ---
> However, that is why gifts are so special to me. I think
gifts should be thoughtful expressions of love and caring. They
should be outside of this “practical” ideal. If I could write
the handbook on gifts, I would state that Costco socks are good
and practical but seen as a donation. And donations are good and
valuable. But a gift is something that should be considered
special, outside of practical, some chocolate, some special
clothing you wouldn’t normally be allowed, a trip to the beach,
a nice dinner out, a pretty piece of jewelry, a funky pair of
socks, silk, a peach when they are hard to get, or blueberries
when they are in season. It’s not the monetary value, or even
the labour that makes a gift a gift, it’s that it’s special in
some way. It’s something a person wouldn’t practically get, and
something no one would practically refuse.
>
> If I wrote the book, all gifts would be thoughtful and not a
pre-arranged business deal (come sa, my husband, it’s your
birthday what do you want is it this much send me the link you
don’t expect wrapping do you) all gifts would be graciously
accepted and all gifts would be re-gifted if considered
inappropriate, in a thoughtful and gracious manner.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree and disagree with you. I agree that a gift should be
special, but I ALSO think that a gift of socks can be special.
On an organizing forum, I had a friend who, when asked what she
wanted for Christmas, said, "I want a year's worth of toilet
paper." Her MIL thought that was silly--but then she decided to
get that for her. And my forum friend found it so very restful
to never have to worry about running out of toilet paper. She
was so appreciative that the MIL then decided to give her a
year's worth of laundry detergent for her birthday.
But here is the place in which this gift giving OVERLAPS with
yours. The gift was not "toilet paper."
The gift was "never having to worry about buying toilet paper."
--- Quote ---
> But my husband disagrees. I feel like I miss a chunk of
Christmas when I negotiate the business of gifts with him. He
only wants expensive, tech, specific gifts which when I try to
get for him he opens and immediately looks online to see if
there is something newer and better to exchange it for.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's kind of rude, actually. I'm sorry he's junking it up for
you.
--- Quote ---
> A lot of people like cash, a lot love socks, some want gift
cards from specific stores and would roll their eyes at the
silly gift of “Catcher in The Rye” that doesn’t even have the
iconic red cover, but has a new artist book cover and the fact
that a person remembered you stated it was a favourite a year
ago is meaningless.
>
> But I live among them. They are not bad people, just people
with different values. So, as we navigate through this post
modern, multi-cultural, multi-class world, we have to
decide...who will we enjoy the art of gifting with, and who will
just engage in a mutual exercise of disappointments...and go on
from there.
>
--- End Quote ---
But if they are rolling their eyes, they are rude. Not every
gift is going to score points--and I agree that people aren't
necessarily obligated to value the gift the same way the giver
does. (I personally resented this little handkerchief bonnet
that someone gave to us when my son was a newborn, because I
rejected the idea that somehow this thing should become an
heirloom his bride would treasure, just because it had been
assigned that significance by someone else. I threw it away.
BUT>>> I never, ever indicated I didn't like it. I may not
have been quite as enthusiastic in my thanks, but I didn't ask
her to take it back!
Sure, you have to live among them, and dwelling on their faults
isn't helpful. We're each entitled to value what we value, and
if gift givers want their gifts to be valued, they may need to
set aside their own preferences. But that's a matter of
logistics.
The fundamental truth is that the giver gets to decide what
to give. Period.
#Post#: 12851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Refusing a gift on behalf of your children
DIR By: LifeOnPluto
Date: September 1, 2018, 8:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain link ---
>
> [quote author=Contrarian link=topic=628.msg12655#msg12655
date=1535568124]
>
> The only reason a person would reject a frivolous gift of
novelty socks and suggest that the value of practical socks be
given to a mother who would in turn “gift” the completely
practical socks to the children, (Costco socks being both
financially and labour-like practical via the matching someone
mentioned) is because you are dealing with a person with whom
thrift, practicality, labour and waste are immensely important.
This is a class, cultural and personality ideology. It doesn’t
mean the person wouldn’t actually value the gift, or not value
the thought but the person does not value frivolousness. So, I
would suggest this is a clash of values rather than a
disrespectful action.
>
--- End Quote ---
There really is nothing more disrespectful or greedy than to
think that you should have a say in how someone else spends
their money when they have bought you a gift. And that's
exactly what she's doing.
She can be as thrifty as she wants with her own money. But, to
suggest that the gift giver go back and try again and spend the
money the way the mother would spend her own money is
ridiculous!
There seems to be a lot of that nowadays. I've come across
people who do that in my regular life. Giving them a gift is
somehow an opportunity for them to go shopping on your dime. It
doesn't matter that they are doing it to be "thrifty" or to make
your dime somehow go farther.
It's their dime. They spent it. Their decision.
Be grateful someone thought enough of you to spend their hard
earned money at all!
[/quote]
I agree with this, with the caveat that: (a) if you know for
sure the recipient will hate the gift; and (b) the gift is one
that can be easily exchanged by the giver ahead of time, I think
it's ok to speak up.
In the OP's example, if the socks were say, pink with pictures
of ballerinas on them, I think it would have been ok for Anna to
say to Beth: "Hey, it was so kind of you to buy those socks! But
I'm afraid the boys are going through a stage where they refuse
to wear anything pink. Is there any chance you could exchange
these for blue socks, or ones with football patterns? They'd
absolutely love those!"
But I do NOT agree with asking the giver to take the gift back,
and instead give you the money for something the recipient would
probably find boring! I definitely think Anna was in the wrong
there.
--- Quote from: Contrarian link ---
>
>
> But my husband disagrees. I feel like I miss a chunk of
Christmas when I negotiate the business of gifts with him. He
only wants expensive, tech, specific gifts which when I try to
get for him he opens and immediately looks online to see if
there is something newer and better to exchange it for.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Welcome to the boards! Your post was really interesting, and I
hope you'll stick around. The extract concerns me though. I'd be
really hurt if my husband was doing that (and I'd probably stick
to giving him gift certificates from now on). How would he feel
if you jumped online to see if one of HIS gifts to you could be
replaced?
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