DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Bad Manners and Brimstone
HTML https://badmanners.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Life in General
*****************************************************
#Post#: 13516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: Bales
Date: September 11, 2018, 5:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This isn't a research paper. Folks are allowed to express
opinion (and indeed, are asked for opinion) and use anecdotal
information from their own perspective and/or background.
#Post#: 13519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: NyaChan
Date: September 11, 2018, 6:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I tend to take the approach that if you do something that is out
of the ordinary it is likely that people will notice. You may
find that irritating. That doesn’t mean you are a bad person.
Someone might ask you about it. It doesn’t make them a bad
person. They might ignore your cues that you don’t welcome
their interest. That might mean they’re a boor. You might
enjoy talking to them about it. That might end up being a fun
conversation.
#Post#: 13549--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: Amanita
Date: September 11, 2018, 11:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't mind compliments or curiosity when I'm out and about in
my more striking outfits. I do mind rudeness, which is
fortunately very rare. But I'd mind just as much if somebody
made fun of my weight or body size, or some other thing besides
my clothes.
I've seen other people in striking clothes, and have held off on
compliments, because they were of a different culture than my
own (they were wearing ethnic dress) and I wasn't sure how
compliments would be perceived- in some other cultures
complimenting somebody on their outfit might be considered too
personal for a stranger to do. I didn't want to cause offense,
so I said nothing.
And I remember some idiot on a cosplay forum, who joined up just
to suggest that anyone wearing clothes he disapproved of
deserved to be assaulted for attracting attention to themselves.
He hated not only cosplayers, but goths and emos too, going on a
rant about how even a walk out with his girlfriend was often
spoiled by seeing them simply existing in public. I let him have
it. Among other things, I told him that if simply seeing a goth
or emo ruined a walk out with his girlfriend, then he was WAY
too emotionally invested in the clothing choices of strangers.
Like Irked Purist said, he needed to learn that other people's
clothing had nothing to do with him, and that his opinions of
said clothing were not those people's problem.
#Post#: 13554--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: Irked Purist
Date: September 12, 2018, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bales link ---
>
> Folks are allowed to express opinion (and indeed, are asked
for opinion) and use anecdotal information from their own
perspective and/or background.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've not said otherwise, but claims should have a firmer basis
than oh, everyone knows that.
'Just my opinion' doesn't excuse a statement from being
factual.
#Post#: 13572--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: Hanna
Date: September 12, 2018, 10:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone think it's actually OK to stare and repeatedly
comment with shock upon anyone's real or contrived everyday
appearance?
I hope we all agree that it's really rude, at worst. At best it
is still super annoying.
I also am finding it kind of surprising that blue hair is a
shock to anyone these days. I live in a kind of boring part of
the world and it's absolutely commonplace here. I thought of
this thread yesterday. I was at a traffic light and there were 3
pedestrians on various corners. Out of the 3, one had blue hair,
another had bright pink.
#Post#: 13607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: guest657
Date: September 12, 2018, 6:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hanna link ---
>
> Does anyone think it's actually OK to stare and repeatedly
comment with shock upon anyone's real or contrived everyday
appearance?
> I hope we all agree that it's really rude, at worst and at
best still super annoying.
>
> I also am finding it kind of surprising that blue hair is a
shock to anyone these days. I live in a kind of boring part of
the world and it's absolutely commonplace here. I thought of
this thread yesterday and I was at a traffic light and there
were 3 pedestrians on various corners. Out of the 3, one had
blue hair, another had bright pink.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sure someone, somewhere, thinks so or they wouldn't do it.
But everyone on this thread has expressed the exact opposite.
I agree about blue hair (just touched mine up today, and it came
out nicely!)
I lean toward the notion that the visitor in the original
scenario took "blue hair" as a joking reference to an older lady
with white hair that had been brightened with a blue rinse. Or
that she pictured blue tips, or a blue streak, or a peekaboo, or
something different than what OP has. And so when she saw OP,
the clash between her mental picture and her eyes glitched her
brain.
Oh, and in case anyone actually needs a formal citation for
common sense, here is a very comprehensive overview of many
psychological studies on motivations for body art and body
modifications. (These being a more targeted search term than
hair color). Both the desire to stand out and be noticed as an
individual, and the desire to rebel against authority figures or
social conventions in general, appear frequently enough in
self-reported motivations to have their own category.
Many people like to get attention and get a reaction from
others. It's not a good thing or a bad thing, necessarily. It's
just part of human nature.
But for those of us who need !science!, here are citations for a
couple dozen scientific studies.
HTML http://www.academia.edu/8560633/Modifying_the_body_Motivations_for_getting_tattooed_and_pierced
#Post#: 13640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: Irked Purist
Date: September 13, 2018, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There must be different degrees of 'exact opposite' then:
--- Quote from: Luci link ---
>
> If someone doesn’t want any startled comments like that, she
shouldn’t have the unusual appearance.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> [...]but a facial tattoo or half a dozen eyebrow rings is fair
game for (polite) comment
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: GardenGal link ---
>
> ITA with Aleko - people who chose an extreme body modification
that is visible should understand that people are going to
comment on it, even though Miss Manners says it is rude to make
comments like that. The woman sounded very surprised, as many
people would be.
--- End Quote ---
Clearly we disagree on the details.
Yes, disclaimers about it should be kept to polite comments,
but also mentions of it being surprising, startling, unusual
enough to cause a brain-mouth disconnection- not situations
where politeness is at the fore. Unthinking comments are often
rude, or they come from someone being outright rude who thought
they were being polite- but they meant well, or their hearts
were in the right place, or they didn't mean to... but but but
but. All those things can be true and they can still be rude
because their intentions don't nullify everything. The recipient
of the comments gets to determine that too.
And honestly, any iteration of '...but if you don't want
comments you shouldn't look like that' is a blanket excuse that
puts the onus entirely back on the subject of the comments. No
matter how rude they were, you provoked them.
TBH I find that sentiment completely manky. It has some ugly
echoes.
I'll give the link a proper read when I'm not at work, if I'm
able (or if I can at least find the abstract on a non-profit
site). It genuinely looks like the sort of thing I'd enjoy as
research anyway; I suppose it's clear I have an investment. I'm
an alternative clothing designer, so it's not just For Fun,
weird clothes are literally my livelihood. Most of my fashion
subculture/customers/friends spend a lot of time on the why/how
of issues like this, and a lot of them are academics, so are
interested when they're studied.
People who dress in a mainstream style: it's what you like,
right? It's the clothes you prefer to wear because you either
like how they look, fit, and feel; or perhaps you're not that
bothered about how they look but it's most comfortable and
easily-available? You're not choosing between 'mainstream' and
'unusual' because the former's easier and you don't have the
courage to look weird- the latter doesn't even register, because
it's not what you like.
I know a couple of people who are actually like that. They're
pretty sad company overall. It would be very insulting to assume
the same is true about everyone I see wearing, say, blue jeans.
It's easy if your taste lines up with the mainstream; you like
what you like, but you don't often have to justify it.
I don't think the '!science!' (nice) is warranted. It's not
that I require a formal citation for common sense, it's that
'common knowledge' is an insufficient basis for making pretty
uncharitable assumptions about strangers. Common sense has been
used to justify a lot of societal unpleasantness and is often
100% bobbins, in complete opposition to facts. Yes, it's an
effect of how humans operate, it's in our nature, it's
understandable... it's also not a good enough reason.
Basing one's 1-on-1 interaction with an individual on those
uncharitable assumptions is even less well-reasoned- they want
to startle people, so I'm free to stare and comment with shock-
and it's no good pointing to society, or the man in the street,
or wherever common knowledge comes from, and saying 'well, they
agree with me!' when that individual is saying, I'd prefer you
didn't do that.
#Post#: 13677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: lakey
Date: September 13, 2018, 3:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> I also am finding it kind of surprising that blue hair is a
shock to anyone these days. I live in a kind of boring part of
the world and it's absolutely commonplace here. I thought of
this thread yesterday and I was at a traffic light and there
were 3 pedestrians on various corners. Out of the 3, one had
blue hair, another had bright pink.
--- End Quote ---
Apparently your part of the world is less boring than mine. It
is very uncommon where I live. I can't remember the last time
I've seen it in person. I have seen a few people with a streak
of blue or pink, but even that is pretty unusual. In my area you
also rarely see gauged earlobes or facial tattoos. The times
that I have seen these types of style were when traveling, or
from people who were visiting my area from a large city.
That being said, I think it's risky to make comments about the
appearance of someone you don't know well, other than something
really innocuous, such as, "I like your outfit."
#Post#: 13855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: gmatoy
Date: September 15, 2018, 8:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, now I'm nervous about something that I sometimes do. I
will tell someone that I don't know how wonderful they look.
Once when I said it to an older woman, she lit up and told me
that she was a widow and how sometimes she wondered why she even
made an effort, because no one ever noticed.
I decided at that moment to say something in the future, when I
saw someone who really looked nice. Because I had almost not
said it to the older lady. Now, I'm wondering if I should just
not comment. No one has ever acted like I shouldn't have said
something, but maybe they have thought it.
#Post#: 13862--------------------------------------------------
Re: Whoa!
DIR By: Pattycake
Date: September 15, 2018, 8:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: gmatoy link ---
>
> Well, now I'm nervous about something that I sometimes do. I
will tell someone that I don't know how wonderful they look.
Once when I said it to an older woman, she lit up and told me
that she was a widow and how sometimes she wondered why she even
made an effort, because no one ever noticed.
>
> I decided at that moment to say something in the future, when
I saw someone who really looked nice. Because I had almost not
said it to the older lady. Now, I'm wondering if I should just
not comment. No one has ever acted like I shouldn't have said
something, but maybe they have thought it.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think when you are saying something positive, without it
seeming like you are surprised they look so good, it's a very
nice thing to do! Keep on doing it. [emoji295]
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page