URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Bad Manners and Brimstone
  HTML https://badmanners.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Life in General
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 11634--------------------------------------------------
       One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: LifeOnPluto
       Date: August 18, 2018, 12:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Warning - long post!
       Background: Carol and Dora are friends. Carol is organising a
       fun 'girls day out' with Alice and Betty (eg maybe some wine
       tasting, lunch, board games, etc), and asks Dora if she'd like
       to join them. Dora has met and socialised with Alice and Betty
       before, and they all seemed to get on ok. Dora reveals that she
       already has tentative plans that weekend with two of her other
       friends, Erica and Fiona, and the three of them are planning on
       having a fun weekend away in the country. However, they haven't
       booked accommodation yet, and between them Carol and Dora decide
       that maybe everyone could book a place together for the weekend.
       
       Alice and Betty like this plan, and the six women end up booking
       a larger holiday house which fits everyone.
       The situation: On the first evening, everyone arrives at the
       holiday house. Alice, Betty and Carol greet the others
       enthusiastically and introduce themselves to Erica and Fiona,
       but receive rather muted and oddly formal replies ("How are you,
       it's nice to meet you", etc). Alice, Betty and Carol have each
       brought their own food for the BBQ, but Dora, Erica and Fiona
       have coordinated their dinner plans, having stopped on the way
       for ingredients. They take over the kitchen, and make risotto
       for the three of them. Then, rather than join Alice, Betty and
       Carol at the dining table, they take their plates into the
       living room, where for the next 4-5 hours they proceed to watch
       movies until late. They do not ask if Alice, Betty and Carol
       would like to join them, so Alice, Betty and Carol just hang out
       by themselves in the kitchen before going to bed.
       The next morning, it turns out that Dora, Erica and Fiona have
       also coordinated their own breakfasts. They take over the
       kitchen again and make pancakes (from scratch) for just the
       three of them. This time, they sit at the table and eat with the
       others, and there is some polite general chat. After breakfast,
       the women all head to a local winery. There is some limited
       interaction between the women, but the focus is mostly on wine
       tasting and the tour of the winery.
       Afterwards in the winery carpark, Dora, Erica and Fiona suddenly
       announce to the other three women that they are off to hike a
       popular walking trail. This is the first that Alice, Betty and
       Carol have heard of this plan. Dora, Erica and Fiona jump in
       Dora's car and take off, leaving the other three staring at each
       other. Again, there is no invitation extended to Alice, Betty
       and Carol. So they head back to the house in Carol's car, and
       spend the afternoon playing board games and hanging out.
       When the other three return, it's late afternoon. Alice, Betty
       and Carol ask how the hike was. They receive politely formal
       responses. ("It was very nice, thank you."). After freshening
       up, Dora, Erica and Fiona troop outside, but rather than join
       Alice, Betty and Carol on the veranda (where there are plenty of
       seats) they keep going, and sit at the picnic table at the
       bottom of the garden, open a bottle of wine and chat among
       themselves. After awhile, Carol goes down and joins them. To
       their credit, they make room for her on the bench and include
       her in their conversation. Alice and Betty stay on the veranda
       and don't bother joining the others.
       That evening, it's more of the same. Dora, Erica and Fiona take
       over the kitchen again, having coordinated dinner between
       themselves (home-made pizzas for the three of them), and watch
       their movies together in the living room. Alice, Betty and Carol
       build a (legal!) campfire outside, and ask Dora, Erica and Fiona
       if they'd like to hang out by the fire. Dora, Erica and Fiona
       come outside and make politely formal comments ("What a lovely
       fire!"), but go back inside after a few minutes.
       The next morning is the last day. Alice, Betty, and Carol
       suggest that all six of them have a nice breakfast at a nearby
       cafe, before heading back to the city. However, Dora, Erica and
       Fiona declare they are 'feeling tired' and 'just want to get
       going'. So they pack up and take off.
       Alice, Betty and Carol think the whole dynamic was bizarre and
       uncomfortable. They think Dora, Erica and Fiona were rather
       stand-offish and exclusionary. However, when Carol tries to talk
       to Dora about it, Dora takes a different view. Dora doesn't
       think anyone was wrong, but rather, the 'two groups' had
       'different expectations' of the weekend. Dora feels that she,
       Erica and Fiona already had their plans, and the other three
       (Alice, Betty and Carol) had their plans, and both groups simply
       happened to be staying at the same holiday house because it was
       convenient. Furthermore, Dora maintains there was nothing to
       prevent Alice and Betty (and to a lesser extent, Carol) from
       joining in more (for example, sitting at the picnic table, or
       watching movies in the evening with Dora, Erica and Fiona, etc).
       That they chose not to is on them.
       What do you guys think. Were Dora, Erica and Fiona rude? Or was
       it a case of miscommunication and mismatched expectations?
       
       #Post#: 11643--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: vintagegal
       Date: August 18, 2018, 6:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think it is likely that Erica and Fiona were quite put out at
       having 3 extra people suddenly join their weekend.
       "between them Carol and Dora decide that maybe everyone could
       book a place together for the weekend. "
       "Alice and Betty like this plan,"
       I don't see any mention of E & F being consulted or giving their
       approval.
       #Post#: 11645--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: Hanna
       Date: August 18, 2018, 6:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If I were Dora, I would be embarrassed by the standoffish
       behavior of my friends.
       I do wonder if she even consulted them before changing the
       plans, or if she proposed this as sharing the house with others
       in order to get a nice place for a lower price.
       In Carol's shoes I would cool my friendship with Dora. I can't
       be close to someone that isn't friendly and welcoming to my
       other friends.
       #Post#: 11646--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: LifeOnPluto
       Date: August 18, 2018, 6:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: vintagegal link ---
       >
       > I think it is likely that Erica and Fiona were quite put out
       at having 3 extra people suddenly join their weekend.
       >
       > "between them Carol and Dora decide that maybe everyone could
       book a place together for the weekend. "
       >
       > "Alice and Betty like this plan,"
       >
       > I don't see any mention of E & F being consulted or giving
       their approval.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Sorry - to clarify, Erica and Fiona were definitely consulted
       before the holiday house was booked, and had ample time to voice
       any objections!
       #Post#: 11648--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: Sycorax
       Date: August 18, 2018, 7:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Maybe they had ample time to object, but didn't feel comfortable
       doing so.   Or maybe D/E/F still wanted their girls' weekend
       with the just the 3 of them, but didn't mind sharing the house
       with the others.
       It sounds like a weird dynamic, but it also sounds like A/B/C
       "invaded" someone else's weekend away without even making plans
       for food.
       #Post#: 11649--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: Pattycake
       Date: August 18, 2018, 8:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think it's mostly on Carol and Dora - doesn't seem they
       communicated what exactly each group was doing, and if they even
       wanted to do things together. A+B seemed to be okay with it, but
       E+F weren't. I think A/B/C were just a little more casual about
       their food arrangements, they did bring their own food for the
       barbeque and there's no indication in the post that they weren't
       prepared for other meals, just surprised that the other group
       would be so inhospitable ("taking over the kitchen" to make
       their own meals, sitting elsewhere etc.) I don't think that
       A/B/C "invaded" - neither group apparently had accommodations
       yet  and they all agreed to share a house. I think expectations
       were different, and Carol and Dora didn't clarify enough what
       the purpose of each group going there was, including dinner and
       other activities, and if they would/could join each other. So
       while I don't think A, B, E, or F were rude, they all could have
       handled it with a little more grace.
       #Post#: 11657--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: Celestia
       Date: August 18, 2018, 10:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think I'm with DEF...if I were going to a vacation house with
       five other people, I definitely wouldn't expect the entire
       weekend to consist of all six of us doing everything together. I
       don't think "we're going hiking, see you later!" is rude, and I
       don't think it was DEF's fault that ABC felt awkward about that.
       I would have assumed ABC had their own stuff that they wanted to
       do, or at least could find something (which it sounds like they
       did....so where's the problem?)
       I'm curious how they "took over" the kitchen...is that something
       different from "they made themselves dinner"? Is there a reason
       ABC couldn't cook before/after/alongside them?
       #Post#: 11662--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: lakey
       Date: August 18, 2018, 11:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This just sounds like poor communication. Putting 6 adults in
       one house is going to have issues as far as groceries, food
       preparation, sharing various rooms, activities, and so on. Then
       you had a situation where there were two separate friend groups.
       I don't think anyone was in the wrong here, or rude. You simply
       had two groups, each having different expectations. It sounds
       like there was no real shared understanding ahead of time of
       what this weekend would be.
       I've been involved in groups of friends close to this size that
       went on shopping trips, skiing expeditions, and to theme parks.
       Each time people tended to break off into groups of two or
       three.
       Once you saw how the trip was going, I think the three of you
       should have made your own plans and enjoyed yourselves. Did you
       do a little homework ahead of time to find out what was
       available in the area? Then when one group went hiking, you
       could have gone to some other attraction.
       #Post#: 11666--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: Elmore 2.0
       Date: August 18, 2018, 1:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       While no one is "wrong" it does seem strange to me and I would
       definitely consider (if I were Carol) that my friendship with
       Dora was not on the same level of open communication as I
       thought and/or perhaps Dora didn't realize her friends weren't
       as friendly to newcomers as she thought, but she didn't think it
       was that big of a deal. I would go forward considering her more
       of an acquaintance and act accordingly.
       #Post#: 11672--------------------------------------------------
       Re: One holiday house, two separate factions
   DIR By: NFPwife
       Date: August 18, 2018, 2:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'll add my voice to the miscommunication chorus. In a perfect
       world you all would have gone out for coffee or drinks to plan
       the trip a bit - everyone's share of expenses, joint activities,
       shared meals, "on your own" meals, etc. etc. That face to face
       meeting would have given everyone a sense of the chemistry of
       the group, too.
       Second option a group text or email on those details.
       I don't think anyone was rude or wrong, per se, but it might
       have been more enjoyable with a bit of planning.
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 5
   DIR Next Page