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#Post#: 9747--------------------------------------------------
Giving advice to your boss UPDATE #8
By: jpcher Date: July 26, 2018, 6:48 pm
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My boss, Karla (I've posted about her in the past on the old
board), is afraid that she's going to loose her job. Karla's
come into my cube several times during the 6 months or so
talking about new management and how she feels like new
management is trying to get rid of her. To the point where she
ends up in tears. Yes! I try to console her by saying "Keep
doing what you're doing" or "You're a great manager, doing an
excellent job" or even the "You took on the new position and
you're not going to change things over night. It takes work and
you can do it!" Platitudes, without giving any real advice.
BG: Karla was hired on as manager for our site graphics
department about eight years ago when she headed a team of five.
Since then we've had one death and three retirements. One new
hire, Sally, who took maternity leave, sick leave and ended up
taking a year long educational leave and didn't return because
she accepted a position with a different company. Leaving only
me and Karla at our site.
About two years ago Karla applied for, and was accepted to a new
position where she would be manager of corporate-wide
graphics/communications departments. Cool for her!
I think Karla has been doing a great job with trying to connect
all the sites together but, from what she tells me, according to
her directors, she thinks she's falling flat. Doesn't know what
to do. There is a whole lot of reorganizational changing within
the entire corporate structure. So I do feel her pain.end BG
We had 2 skype meetings yesterday.
One included everybody on the team (one team member is a manger
(Terry) of many, so this included her managed team). Karla sent
out an email before the meeting saying basically "What does X
mean to you?" There wasn't much participation so at one point
Karla called out Terry "What do you think?" Terry responded with
"You're putting me on the spot here, but what I think . . . "
and it was a good response. Only one other person responded to
Terry's thoughts and then, silence. Karla said "Does anybody
else have anything to say?" One person chimed in saying "I think
I need more direction, more information because I don't really
know what you're looking for." Karla ended the meeting by saying
"Okay. Please send me an email, after you've had time to think
about it."
Karla called me a few minutes after the meeting and asked me
what I thought.
I told her that I wasn't clear on her initial question and maybe
I (and others) should have responded to her email before meeting
asking "What do you mean? What, exactly, are you looking for?"
Karla said "I thought I was clear with my message. Sigh."
What would you have done here?
The second meeting, which is my main point, included all of
Karla's direct reports (meaning Terry and none of her direct
reports, but included five other designers from different
locations that are direct reports to Karla). We touched on the
reorganization, and Matt asked a question and started to expound
on his concerns.
Karla interrupted and said "Oh, be quiet!" (Yes, she said those
words verbatim) :o She went on, trying to explain/answer his
concerns, but it was mostly rhetoric. Blah, blah blah.
Then, from something that Karla said, Shawn asked a question "Do
you mean this?" and Karla said "Did you really ask me that
question?" :o
Shawn, hesitated and said "Yes, I don't know what you want me to
do going forward."
After more blah, blah, blah Karla asked "Any more questions?" .
. . crickets . . . "Okay, if nobody has any other input I guess
this meeting is over." With Karla's abrupt answers, no wonder
nobody else chimed in with additional questions.
I'm wondering, since Karla comes crying into my cube asking for
input, is there a polite way of saying "You messed up!" Or did
she? I think she did.
Maybe I'm wrong, I honestly don't think there's any
insubordination going on. It's mostly that people are looking
for clarification and it seems that Karla expects people to be
mind-readers.
Any thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
#Post#: 9749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: Pattycake Date: July 26, 2018, 6:57 pm
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Seriously, I would send this in to Ask A Manager. (Change the
names if you've used real names.) I think Karla's fear is
causing her to lash out inappropriately, but I couldn't advise
you on how to deal with it effectively.
#Post#: 9766--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: guest24 Date: July 27, 2018, 4:19 am
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IIRC Karla's done this to you previously. She dumped all over
you when she couldn't handle a "Sally " situation. It is not
appropriate for a boss to ask staff members how to cope.
Next time it happens, you could respond with a genuine, and
truthful:
"Karla, I really don't know what to say! I think you really need
to discuss with[Karla's supervisor]".
Resist the urge to offer suggestions even though you may think
you're being helpful.She will take this as criticism, and add
you to the pile of people who are " against" her.
#Post#: 9773--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: Hmmm Date: July 27, 2018, 8:58 am
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Based on the way she handled the Sally issue, that she
emotionally dumps on a subordinate, and your description of
these 2 scenarios, I don' t she is doing a good job or is a
great manager.
My advice.
Give feedback on specifics since you have a good relationship
and seem to want her to succeed.
"Karla, I think it would be helpful to have more detail on the
purpose of the meeting you are planning. I'm not sure what I
should prepare for. Can you provide the group more insights to
your thoughts?"
"Karla, you seemed a little short with Matt and Shawn. Honestly
your reactions to them made even me afraid to ask another
question. Are you ok today?"
As far as giving advice when she is coming to you I'd ask her if
she's ask her supervisor for specifics ond how they'd like her
to improve and also whether she has developed a mentor who can
give her advice.
#Post#: 9817--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: Bada Date: July 27, 2018, 5:48 pm
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The email issue, at least, isn't about giving advice. Next time
she sends a really unclear email, you should just respond to her
(and only her, probably, to let her save face, since maybe she
doesn't like people asking questions because she's insecure).
Ask for clarifications galore. Maybe blame yourself a little for
not getting what she's saying? Or blame the medium? "It's so
hard to understand things in an email sometimes because there's
no non-verbal indicators." Or you could even reword her most
confusing sentence and say "Did you mean [Sentence 1]? Or did
you mean [Sentence 2]?" Maybe that will help her see in what way
she's not being clear.
So I'm not sure what you could have said in the moment, but you
can prevent it from happening like that again.
And I love Allison's advice on Ask A Manager. This sounds right
up her alley.
#Post#: 9818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: Sycorax Date: July 27, 2018, 6:08 pm
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And there's always the Friday "open" thread, where you can get
feedback from the AAM audience. Many of the commenters there
have pretty good advice.
#Post#: 9839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: LifeOnPluto Date: July 27, 2018, 11:13 pm
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Another vote here for submitting your story and question to "Ask
A Manager". It's a great site (up there with Bad Manners and
Brimstone ;D )
As for what I'd do, I'd tread very carefully when it comes to
giving your boss advice - especially if you're dealing with
someone who isn't behaving very reasonably or professionally. It
sounds like Karla might just be looking for sympathy/agreement,
rather than actual advice. I like a previous poster's idea of
suggesting that Karla talks to HER manager about this.
#Post#: 10170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss
By: bopper Date: July 31, 2018, 2:14 pm
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1) You could offer her feedback to say that she probably has
been thinking about this issue for awhile. Her employees have
not, She has an idea of what the question is...they do not. So
if they don't understand what type of feedback she wants, they
won't have much to say.
2) if she wants real feedback, she needs to make it a safe space
to talk...not deprecating anyone. If she doesn't agree, she
should probe "Can you tell me more about that?" but not "Be
quiet" or "Did you really ask that."
#Post#: 10408--------------------------------------------------
Giving advice to your boss UPDATE #8
By: jpcher Date: August 2, 2018, 4:38 pm
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Thank you all for your replies . . . I haven't checked out Ask A
Manager, keep meaning to but hasn't happened yet. It does sound
like a good site and not the first time I've seen it
recommended.
UPDATE:
Karla called me into her office today and told me that she's
giving her two weeks notice. :o
She broke into tears again and said "I just can't take it any
more. My directors are brutal." She went on to reiterate how she
thought her directors had it in for her (this has been mentioned
several times in the past during our talks), gave understandable
examples then said "Guess what? They won!"
She went on to say that she knew her own management of her team
has been lacking. She said "I've been short with people who are
doing a great job and they don't deserve the backlash of my
stress." So at least she acknowledged the awareness of what was
going on.
Last December Karla was in the hospital for a few days due to
stress/anxiety/panic. She told me that she's feeling like she's
going down the same spiral path and really doesn't want to end
up in the hospital again.
We left it with me saying "Good for you! You really don't need
this type of treatment from your directors. Your out-of-work
life has been suffering due to this work BS (she's shared
stories of this as well). I know it was a hard decision but
you're giving yourself the opportunity to balance your life."
Karla said "Thank God you see it that way! I feel like a ton of
bricks have been lifted from my chest!"
So, yeah, I'm very sad to see her go. But I think this is the
best choice for her.
Now . . . where does that leave meeee?
#Post#: 10411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Giving advice to your boss UPDATE #8
By: Jem Date: August 2, 2018, 4:58 pm
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Good for Karla for taking care of her mental and emotional
health. Hopefully her replacement will be a better manager than
Karla was. Your posts about her on EHell made her seem
ill-suited to management in a great many ways.
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