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       #Post#: 9466--------------------------------------------------
       Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: Hmmm
       Date: July 24, 2018, 8:26 am
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       I was reading this article. While I think it would be great to
       live in a society where "Please" is included with every request,
       I'm not sure how practical that advice is.
  HTML https://www.uexpress.com/miss-manners/2018/7/23/must-i-say-please-every-time
       Just thinking about putting dinner together in the kitchen with
       my DH, conversations are usually along the lines of
       "Would you hand me that bowl"
       "Can you check the oven temp"
       "The salad needs to be tossed"
       Please is included when it's not an "ongoing" activity like
       "Would you pass the potatoes please" or "Would you please stop
       by the store on the way home."
       I can't imagine every request at work being accompanied with a
       "please". It makes me laugh a little to think of the Action
       Items from meeting minutes to include Please.
       Does your family include "Please" as part of every request?
       #Post#: 9470--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: OnyxBird
       Date: July 24, 2018, 8:39 am
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       Yeah, I thought that one was rather ridiculous. I have found
       that I generally find the current "Miss Manners" writer's advice
       to be similarly off, and it often seems to outright contradict
       the original Miss Manners' writings.
       E.g., this one was paired with the letter where "Miss Manners"
       basically endorsed the idea that a bereaved relative at her
       sister's funeral was obligated to accept unwanted hugs from
       other mourners and that it was her duty to "represent the
       deceased" to the wider circle of mourners (basically a complete
       inversion of the "circle theory" that states the wider circle
       should consider the needs of those closest to the deceased).
       Pretty sure I've read an entry in one of the original Miss
       Manners' books that was fully devoted to rebuking those who try
       to force unwanted hugs on people.
       #Post#: 9478--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: Hmmm
       Date: July 24, 2018, 9:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: OnyxBird link ---
       >
       > Yeah, I thought that one was rather ridiculous. I have found
       that I generally find the current "Miss Manners" writer's advice
       to be similarly off, and it often seems to outright contradict
       the original Miss Manners' writings.
       >
       > E.g., this one was paired with the letter where "Miss Manners"
       basically endorsed the idea that a bereaved relative at her
       sister's funeral was obligated to accept unwanted hugs from
       other mourners and that it was her duty to "represent the
       deceased" to the wider circle of mourners (basically a complete
       inversion of the "circle theory" that states the wider circle
       should consider the needs of those closest to the deceased).
       Pretty sure I've read an entry in one of the original Miss
       Manners' books that was fully devoted to rebuking those who try
       to force unwanted hugs on people.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That one bugged me to. I can understand someone feeling they
       were barely holding it together and a hug would shatter their
       composure. I though MM should have told the hugger that it was
       ridiculous that she still felt embarrassed that her offered hug
       was not accepted. I'm sure it was a little awkward for her in
       the moment, but geez, get over yourself. Not everyone was
       standing around wondering why the sister didn't want to hug you.
       All she had to say was "Of course, I understand. Please let me
       know if you or the family needs anything."
       #Post#: 9487--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: Isisnin
       Date: July 24, 2018, 10:48 am
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       I gave up on Miss Manners when the new (current) Miss Manners
       took over. I often don't agree with her advice, but most often
       can't stand the way she phrases her answers. She very often puts
       down the letter writer and that is not necessary. This response
       to the letter writer here is a case in point. It's like she gets
       a kick out of putting people down.
       Regarding always saying please, with people like your family
       members that you live with and there is work being done that
       benefits everyone (cooking, fixing something) please is not
       always necessary. But showing appreciation should always be
       done. So no please, but a thank you is fine by me.
       #Post#: 9491--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: TootsNYC
       Date: July 24, 2018, 11:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Isisnin link ---
       >
       > I gave up on Miss Manners when the new (current) Miss Manners
       took over. I often don't agree with her advice, but most often
       can't stand the way she phrases her answers.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Judith Martin's touch is VERY hard to reproduce. I know these
       are her kids, and she's loosely involved, but it is not easily
       done. I miss Judith!
       As for "please": We don't use it much, and I realized that MY
       KIDS didn't use it, when other people's kids do. I always tried
       to use my tone of voice to imply "please," but I think I let my
       kids down by not modeling it more.
       #Post#: 9494--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: Pattycake
       Date: July 24, 2018, 12:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: OnyxBird link ---
       >
       > Yeah, I thought that one was rather ridiculous. I have found
       that I generally find the current "Miss Manners" writer's advice
       to be similarly off, and it often seems to outright contradict
       the original Miss Manners' writings.
       >
       > E.g., this one was paired with the letter where "Miss Manners"
       basically endorsed the idea that a bereaved relative at her
       sister's funeral was obligated to accept unwanted hugs from
       other mourners and that it was her duty to "represent the
       deceased" to the wider circle of mourners (basically a complete
       inversion of the "circle theory" that states the wider circle
       should consider the needs of those closest to the deceased).
       Pretty sure I've read an entry in one of the original Miss
       Manners' books that was fully devoted to rebuking those who try
       to force unwanted hugs on people.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, this is what was bugging me when I read the article. I have
       told parents of small children that didn't want to hug me to
       please not force them to, that's just not right to teach them
       that they must hug everyone who wants to hug them.  And eww -
       represent the deceased? Like what, you're hugging them on behalf
       of the deceased - No!
       #Post#: 9498--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: TootsNYC
       Date: July 24, 2018, 12:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       on the funeral subject--I think it was really rude of that
       Letter Writer to try to hug a woman she doesn't know well! Ye
       gods--keep your hands to yourself.
       #Post#: 9499--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: wolfie
       Date: July 24, 2018, 12:54 pm
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       A funeral is pretty much the number one place that is not about
       you. You want to show comfort in a way that the mourner doesn't
       want? Swallow your embarrassment and move on. Hopefully you
       figure out something that works for both of you but either way
       do not bring it up again.
       #Post#: 9508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: BeagleMommy
       Date: July 24, 2018, 1:56 pm
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       I find using please in everyday conversation with the people who
       live with you overly formal and stuffy.
       Although I do thank BeagleDaddy and BeagleBoy when they do
       something I've asked them to do.
       #Post#: 9509--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Miss Manners & Please
   DIR By: Bada
       Date: July 24, 2018, 2:03 pm
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       Do you think if the grandparents had written in she'd have
       pointed out how unbelievably rude they are to correct those kids
       in front of their parents?!  I can't imagine my parents
       undermining my parenting like that in from of me!
       Maybe saying please every time is one of those things you're
       taught to do at a young age but you can use it more judiciously
       once you're older? Because clearly it doesn't make sense for an
       adult. But there is a difference between asking and ordering;
       even where you're not using please, asking is still polite
       enough for adult conversation (like in Hmmm's post).
       I recently was bossed around by my young niece. I snapped at her
       that I was my son's parent, not her. I'm embarrassed at myself,
       but it made me aware and I watched their family dynamic more
       that day. My nephew (same parents, a couple years older but not
       double digits) was ordering his mom to do something particular
       to take care of an animal. The mom thanked him for his concern,
       but never addressed his tone or words. But I realized that the
       mom also tends to even boss around her husband. Since then I've
       been trying to model more polite language to my son, because I
       don't want to be raising bossy kids.
       Also: saying grieving people have to hug if the deceased would
       have hugged is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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