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#Post#: 8361--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 11:41 am
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[quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=519.msg8319#msg8319
date=1531268868]
A verbal invitation is still an invitation. That said, if I
were in your shoes I'd give her a call (or better yet, see her
in person) to have a chat about it. She either offers a sincere
apology or she can save herself the "embarrassment" of being at
your wedding and stay home that day.
[/quote]
I might send her an email. I don't trust myself to be respectful
on the phone, and certainly not in person. But I might call and
say "It is my understanding that you are under the impression
that you're invited. As per our last conversation, I'm an
embarrassment and shouldn't have the wedding. I did not think,
based on that, you were interested in coming." and see what she
replies.
I'm having a hard time politely saying "Don't bother, I don't
want you there." If she apologized, I probably would swallow my
hurt feelings because it's a celebration and the more people to
celebrate and be happy, the merrier!
#Post#: 8362--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 11:42 am
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[quote author=Pattycake link=topic=519.msg8321#msg8321
date=1531275824]
I agree with Ducky. If you extended a verbal invitation, you did
invite her. And I agree that you need to have a difficult
conversation with her. If you don't think she's going to
apologize, you could just tell her that as she has expressed her
feelings about it, you don't want to cause her further
embarrassment which is why you haven't sent her an invitation.
(I would ask her why on earth, since you are an embarrassment,
does she even want to come to the wedding?!)
[/quote]
The why she even wants to come really bothers me. It smacks of
her coming just so it looks 'good', she's very concerned with
appearances. I may well send her an email. She isn't going to
apologize, but at least she'll know she isn't supposed to be
there.
#Post#: 8363--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 11:44 am
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[quote author=NFPwife link=topic=519.msg8322#msg8322
date=1531275984]
I agree with Ducky, based on the verbal invitation, she's right
to consider herself invited. If you could reverse time, I think
a verbal dis-invite when she went on her verbal tirade would
have been appropriate. "I'm sorry you feel that way, Gram, I'll
save you further embarrassment and let you know you needn't
attend," followed by you ending the call.
Because that didn't happen your mom is also in the middle and,
while your Gram put her there, I think it's kind to get her out
as soon as possible. If Gram brings it up to mom, have mom
direct her to you. Then, if you could write a letter (or call)
and say, "Gram, based on our last conversation, I decided to
move forward with wedding without inviting you. You were harsh
and hurtful with your personal attacks and you needn't attend."
If Gram apologizes you can decide if you want to change your
mind and invite her. If I were in your shoes, there's not much
she could say to change my position. I'm sorry she was so mean.
Cheers to a lovely wedding day!!
[/quote]
I have told my Mom to tell her to speak to me about the wedding.
Mom refuses to do that, because she knows my Grandmother is
stubborn (gee, I may come by the stubbornness honestly?), and
would rather pretend the conversation never happened.
But I will probably email and said "You were hurtful. I'm sorry
if it makes you sad not to come, but you did tell me I'm an
embarrassment and that I shouldn't have the wedding. I therefore
didn't put you on the invite list, since you made it clear you
thought it was a bad idea."
You're right there's not much she can say to make me figure it's
just---okay.
#Post#: 8364--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 11:45 am
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[quote author=Bada link=topic=519.msg8323#msg8323
date=1531281007]
It doesn't really matter if you technically invited her or not.
She's acting as if she's invited, which means she's going to try
to show up. You need to do something to stop her.
I hate these types of confrontations and I like to have time to
revise, so if it was me, I'd write her a letter.
[/quote]
I will probably write her an email letting her know not to
bother.
#Post#: 8365--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 11:53 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=519.msg8332#msg8332
date=1531301819]
[quote]It doesn't really matter if you technically invited her
or not. She's acting as if she's invited, which means she's
going to try to show up. You need to do something to stop her.
[/quote]
Seconded. She may consider that you verbally invited her, or
even more likely just assumes that the grandmother of the bride
is automatically on the guest list, which in the ordinary way of
course would be true. There's no mileage in nitpicking this
aspect: the point is that she considers herself entitled to show
up, and means to - and there's no chance that she can't find out
from someone in the family where and when it's to be. And in the
meantime, your mom is in the firing line and it's not fair to
leave her having to deal with it. For both these reasons you
have to confront your grandmother directly.
Personally, I wouldn't go down the 'your remarks were
hurtful/insulting' line at all; that's not useful. I'd simply
say (or, perhaps better, write as Bada suggests) something like:
"Grandmother, when I told you about my wedding plans you said
that my having a wedding was wrong, and an embarrassment to the
family. I accept that those are your views, which you're fully
entitled to hold, [b]and I told you at the time that I would not
expect or wish anyone to come to my wedding who felt that way
about it. Respecting your views as I do, I haven't sent you an
invitation.
I gather from Mom that now you're apparently looking forward to
attending. Does this mean that you have changed your mind about
the wrongness of my celebrating my marriage, and that now you
are prepared to participate joyfully with us in the celebration?
If so, nothing would make me happier than to send you an
invitation - just tell me that's so, and I'll put it in in the
post today. But if you still disapprove of this wedding: as I
say, I will always respect your views and you, but of course you
should not attend."[/b]
I absolutely wouldn't send an invitation without first wringing
out of her an admission that she has withdrawn from her earlier
stance and is prepared to come and celebrate with you. That
might not stop her looking a bit sour and muttering darkly at
the reception, but at least you'd have that to hold over her,
especially if you can get it in writing!
[/quote]
I am a bit frustrated with my Mom for wanting me to invite her.
I haven't spoken to her because I haven't felt like opening
myself up to hearing more nonsense. My Mom is also an adult, I
will say, and fully capable of telling her she's not talking to
her about the wedding.
Mind you, my Grandmother is not her mother, it's my father's
mother. My parents are separated and have been for over twenty
years.
I will likely send her an email saying something to that effect.
And if she apologizes, and not just "You took everything I said
wrong.", that's fine! Come on, there's plenty of tacos and
bubble wands for everyone. I like the part about respecting her
opinion, I understand she might really feel that way, and that's
totally fine. I don't really care that she feels that way, I
care that she called me to tell me and now seems surprised that
I'm unhappy about it.
#Post#: 8366--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 11:56 am
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[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=519.msg8343#msg8343
date=1531318290]
I agree that it is not appropriate to get your mother in the
middle of this. Just like she wouldn't have the power to modify
your wedding plans, she doesn't have the power to modify her
mother's opinions or plans.
I think this is were you demonstrate you can wear your big boy
pants and give your grandmother a call. Just start with
"Grandmother, there seems to be a misunderstanding. After your
response to me concerning my wedding and pregnancy, I thought it
was agreed that you would not be attending. We do not want to
put people in a position to pretend to be celebrating our
marriage while they are secretly offended in the manner in which
we are wedding. And honestly, I'd rather not be reminded on that
day that you think of me as an embarrassment to the family. I'd
rather see if we can get on relationship on a better footing
after the wedding and the baby is born. I'm sure you
understand."
[/quote]
It's not even her mother, it's her estranged husband's mother.
Grandmother did take it to my father, but I think he told her
that I'm an adult and he doesn't care if I get married I don't
or if I'm pregnant or not. (Not that he doesn't *care*, just
that he doesn't feel that he has that kind of input on my life.)
So for whatever reason she went to Mom about it.
And I don't expect her to modify my grandmother's plans at all,
no one controls another person. She sure can tell her she's not
interested in having conversations about the wedding, though.
I will email her about it.
#Post#: 8367--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 12:03 pm
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[quote author=Model link=topic=519.msg8347#msg8347
date=1531320381]
I think you are being a bit passive-aggressive about this. I
don't blame you a single bit, mind you - your grandmother
behaved horribly to you. However, I do think the best thing to
do would be to just call her. Others have given good
suggestions on what to say. If you don't put this to rest one
way or the other its just going to be hanging your head and
casting a shadow on what should be a glorious time for you!
[/quote]
I think there's passive-aggressive and there's just--if you're
being nasty, I'm not going to come back for more. My therapist
and I discussed it in session this week, because it kept bugging
me. We came to the conclusion that if I want to email and tell
her kindly not to worry about attending.
And it's kind of sucky, because I'm not sure she set out just to
be nasty, if that makes sense. We don't always see eye to eye. I
remember the great Haircut Tantrum of '06 (she threw a fit when
I cut my hair in a pixie and dyed it blonde). Things seemed
better when I had my first child, and I've made it a point to
never not take my kid around my Grandmother, as they adore one
another. I do think on some level, she was a little scandalized
because in her day and age, it just wasn't done the way I'm
doing it.
And that's fine! I get that! Change is hard and scary! But if
you're the only person pearl clutching, maybe there's nothing to
pearl clutch about?
#Post#: 8368--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: BunnyAndBandit Date: July 11, 2018, 12:05 pm
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[quote author=wolfie link=topic=519.msg8360#msg8360
date=1531327147]
An embarrassment to your fiancee? wow. Yeah. she wouldn't be
invited to my wedding and I don't know if I would ever talk to
her again.
[/quote]
That was one bit that really stuck in my craw. Like he wasn't
equally responsible in this mess? Like he doesn't have a brain
and can't make choices for himself about it?
#Post#: 8377--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: Bada Date: July 11, 2018, 2:25 pm
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[quote author=BunnyAndBandit link=topic=519.msg8367#msg8367
date=1531328629]
[quote author=Model link=topic=519.msg8347#msg8347
date=1531320381]
I think you are being a bit passive-aggressive about this. I
don't blame you a single bit, mind you - your grandmother
behaved horribly to you. However, I do think the best thing to
do would be to just call her. Others have given good
suggestions on what to say. If you don't put this to rest one
way or the other its just going to be hanging your head and
casting a shadow on what should be a glorious time for you!
[/quote]
I think there's passive-aggressive and there's just--if you're
being nasty, I'm not going to come back for more. My therapist
and I discussed it in session this week, because it kept bugging
me. We came to the conclusion that if I want to email and tell
her kindly not to worry about attending.
And it's kind of sucky, because I'm not sure she set out just to
be nasty, if that makes sense. We don't always see eye to eye. I
remember the great Haircut Tantrum of '06 (she threw a fit when
I cut my hair in a pixie and dyed it blonde). Things seemed
better when I had my first child, and I've made it a point to
never not take my kid around my Grandmother, as they adore one
another. I do think on some level, she was a little scandalized
because in her day and age, it just wasn't done the way I'm
doing it.
And that's fine! I get that! Change is hard and scary! But if
you're the only person pearl clutching, maybe there's nothing to
pearl clutch about?
[/quote]
I hope I'm not putting words in Model's mouth, but I think Model
meant it's passive-aggressive to do nothing and hope Grandma
just figures out she's not invited. Sending Grandma an email
explaining the situation politely is not PA, but Model didn't
know that was the plan (since you hadn't decided that in the
OP).
#Post#: 8384--------------------------------------------------
Re: When Can You Consider Yourself Invited?
By: GardenGal Date: July 11, 2018, 3:23 pm
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OP - First, congratulations on the baby and your upcoming
wedding!
[quote]Things seemed better when I had my first child, and I've
made it a point to never not take my kid around my Grandmother,
as they adore one another. I do think on some level, she was a
little scandalized because in her day and age, it just wasn't
done the way I'm doing it.[/quote]
This comment makes me think that because your grandmother has a
great relationship with your first child (good for you for
encouraging this!), you probably have a good relationship with
her in general. Now it's time for you to decide what you'd like
your relationship to be going forward. (When I was about 14, I
remember saying to my mom that I just realized that she'd been
married longer than I was alive. My mom, who had been born in
1912, drew herself up to her full 5'2" tall and said, very
seriously, "Well, I should hope so.")
If you would like to have a good relationship with your
grandmother going forward, and you think she's capable of doing
this and not holding your got-married-while-pregnant status over
your head, here's what I'd do. I'd call her and say, "Grandma,
I was tremendously hurt the last time we spoke. You said I was
an embarrassment and other deliberately hurtful things that I
will not ignore, and since you did not support me in planning to
get married I decided not to invite you and do not want you to
attend. Fiance, older child, and I are sorry that you cannot
join us for that happy occasion. I am sad that your attitude
means that I can no longer allow you to be part of our lives.
However, now that you're asking my mother about when and where
the wedding will be, I wonder if you thought you'd be welcome
without first sincerely apologizing to me for your comments?
That's not going to happen, so if you'd like to apologize so
that we can repair our relationship I'd be very happy about
that, because I think that deep inside you really do want the
best for all of us."
And then stop talking and let the silence stretch as long as
necessary. If she hangs up the phone, or doesn't offer a
sincere apology, you've got your answer. I am hoping she will
sincerely apologize ("I was so upset because in my day such a
wedding would be a scandal, but I know things have changed, and
I'm sorry for what I said.").
And if her apology sounds less than sincere, ("Well, I still
think it's disgraceful that you're getting married in your
condition...") you can say, "Grandma, I'm sorry you feel that
way. Do not come to the wedding and do not contact me until
you're ready to sincerely apologize," and hang up the phone.
You should tell your mother what you've done, and ask your
mother that when grandmother calls your mother, she should say
that this is between grandmother and you and not discuss it any
further.
I think it's important to clear the air now so that grandmother
understands how serious you are. How would you feel if, after
your 2nd child is born, grandmother wanted to only have a
relationship with your older child? This wouldn't be fair to
either child, which is one more reason you need to begin as you
mean to go on. Hope you get a sincere apology quickly!
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