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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 7217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: guest725
Date: June 28, 2018, 11:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> I personally think the FA has forgotten they are also
responsible for providing customer service. We don't know how
agitated the discussion was between the FA and the woman prior
to the video. But her response to the man filming was really
unacceptable. I think I would have rallied the plane to request
this rude, probably overworked and unhelpful FA was removed from
the plane. I would not have trusted that she would put the care
of the passengers before herself if there was an emergency.
>
--- End Quote ---
Really now? Do you honestly think that would have worked? It is
illegal to interfere with a crew member and your little stunt
would likely not only get you removed by airport security but
arrested for that interference.
#Post#: 7241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: June 29, 2018, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: puppylove link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=432.msg7157#msg7157
date=1530212822]
> I personally think the FA has forgotten they are also
responsible for providing customer service. We don't know how
agitated the discussion was between the FA and the woman prior
to the video. But her response to the man filming was really
unacceptable. I think I would have rallied the plane to request
this rude, probably overworked and unhelpful FA was removed from
the plane. I would not have trusted that she would put the care
of the passengers before herself if there was an emergency.
>
--- End Quote ---
Really now? Do you honestly think that would have worked? It is
illegal to interfere with a crew member and your little stunt
would likely not only get you removed by airport security but
arrested for that interference.
[/quote]
Yes, it would have been highly likely that I would have been
removed. But you can be sure that I would have been logging a
complaint with the head attendant or the captain as this
encounter was going on. There is absolutely no reason that a
plane full of paying passengers should be subjected to this
flight attendants attitude for the duration of the flight. I
might even have gone so far to call the company number and state
that I was on a flight and felt unsafe due to the FA's behavior.
Her demeanor in that video gave me absolutely no comfort or
expectation that she would adequately perform her job if an
emergency happened.
If I can't challenge them in the name of "security" then they
darn well better display professional enough behavior to make me
believe they are capable of acting professional when the time
comes.
#Post#: 7255--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: Bada
Date: June 29, 2018, 9:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This story has the original tweet in it.
HTML http://www.businessinsider.com/delta-removes-passengers-after-airplane-mode-fight-report-2018-6
Rodgers (the original passenger) uses the Twitter handle of the
man who got involved, thus never describing him
(@ryanmillerphotos). But the woman who then got involved to ask
the FA to sit is described at Latina twice...and then her name
is used along with her ethnicity again ("Elena, the Latina
woman").
Why call her The Latina Woman repeatedly when you know her
name--unless you're trying to make the story appear to be about
race?
Frankly, Elena was a moron for trying to order a FA around. She
should have known no good would come from her stunt. Ryan Miller
jumping in to say original passenger did obey makes more sense,
since he's just explaining she complied. But to pile on...nope,
not wise.
I have a close relative who was a FA. No way would she have
allowed a passenger to order her to sit. She had a patented
glare, though, that would have withered any and all offenders
before it got to this stage.
#Post#: 7268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: lakey
Date: June 29, 2018, 12:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> If I can't challenge them in the name of "security" then they
darn well better display professional enough behavior to make me
believe they are capable of acting professional when the time
comes.
--- End Quote ---
That's all good, except any challenging needs to be done once
the flight is over. I've spent evenings watching multiple
youtubes of people being removed from flights. There are a lot
of them. Sometimes the FA's appear to be making a big deal out
of nothing. The airline employees make the decision, like it or
not. In an argument, the passenger always loses. When other
passengers get involved it only makes matters worse. These
arguments don't only affect the couple of people involved in the
argument. They affect all of the other passengers, and any
passengers on other flights that that plane may be making for
the rest of the day.
These things cause delays, which means other passengers may miss
important business meetings, connecting flights, and other
travel plans, such as getting to a cruise. In most of these
instances one to three people were kicked off the plane, but in
a few the whole flight was canceled. All passengers had to leave
the plane. If you had been on that flight and had "rallied the
other passengers" and gotten them worked up, that very easily
could have been the result. If you've ever been at an airport
when a flight gets canceled and watched people running like a
mob to make alternate flights, it's a nightmare. Arguing while
on the plane only makes the situation worse. You won't win.
In the video of this incident, neither party was nasty or
aggressive. No one was yelling or swearing. No one was out of
control. It wasn't a big deal at all. The FA should have checked
to make sure that the phone was in AM, and then let it go.
Instead both of them got into a drawn out back and forth about
who said or heard what, or blah, blah, blah. The whole
conversation was pointless. It didn't look to me that the
passenger needed to be kicked off the flight. However, the way
to deal with that is after the flight is over, which is what the
passenger did by putting the video online. Let the public see it
and judge for themselves. THAT is effective.
#Post#: 7275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: June 29, 2018, 1:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bada link ---
>
> This story has the original tweet in it.
>
HTML http://www.businessinsider.com/delta-removes-passengers-after-airplane-mode-fight-report-2018-6
>
> Rodgers (the original passenger) uses the Twitter handle of
the man who got involved, thus never describing him
(@ryanmillerphotos). But the woman who then got involved to ask
the FA to sit is described at Latina twice...and then her name
is used along with her ethnicity again ("Elena, the Latina
woman").
>
> Why call her The Latina Woman repeatedly when you know her
name--unless you're trying to make the story appear to be about
race?
>
> Frankly, Elena was a moron for trying to order a FA around.
She should have known no good would come from her stunt. Ryan
Miller jumping in to say original passenger did obey makes more
sense, since he's just explaining she complied. But to pile
on...nope, not wise.
>
> I have a close relative who was a FA. No way would she have
allowed a passenger to order her to sit. She had a patented
glare, though, that would have withered any and all offenders
before it got to this stage.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, hopefully before glaring at a passenger she would have
responded "Thank you but this is between me and this passenger."
Or maybe even acknowledged that her behavior might be in the
wrong if another passenger is willing to stick his neck out. Not
immediately start threatening him because he was standing up for
another passenger receiving abuse.
#Post#: 7278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: June 29, 2018, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: lakey link ---
>
> [quote]If I can't challenge them in the name of "security"
then they darn well better display professional enough behavior
to make me believe they are capable of acting professional when
the time comes.
--- End Quote ---
That's all good, except any challenging needs to be done once
the flight is over. I've spent evenings watching multiple
youtubes of people being removed from flights. There are a lot
of them. Sometimes the FA's appear to be making a big deal out
of nothing. The airline employees make the decision, like it or
not. In an argument, the passenger always loses. When other
passengers get involved it only makes matters worse. These
arguments don't only affect the couple of people involved in the
argument. They affect all of the other passengers, and any
passengers on other flights that that plane may be making for
the rest of the day.
These things cause delays, which means other passengers may miss
important business meetings, connecting flights, and other
travel plans, such as getting to a cruise. In most of these
instances one to three people were kicked off the plane, but in
a few the whole flight was canceled. All passengers had to leave
the plane. If you had been on that flight and had "rallied the
other passengers" and gotten them worked up, that very easily
could have been the result. If you've ever been at an airport
when a flight gets canceled and watched people running like a
mob to make alternate flights, it's a nightmare. Arguing while
on the plane only makes the situation worse. You won't win.
In the video of this incident, neither party was nasty or
aggressive. No one was yelling or swearing. No one was out of
control. It wasn't a big deal at all. The FA should have checked
to make sure that the phone was in AM, and then let it go.
Instead both of them got into a drawn out back and forth about
who said or heard what, or blah, blah, blah. The whole
conversation was pointless. It didn't look to me that the
passenger needed to be kicked off the flight. However, the way
to deal with that is after the flight is over, which is what the
passenger did by putting the video online. Let the public see it
and judge for themselves. THAT is effective.
[/quote]
Your missing my primary point. I would not feel as a passenger
that the FA in that video would be willing to perform her duties
in case of an emergency. Her overly aggressive behavior with the
initial passenger and then immediate threat to the man filming
to me implies someone who does not care in the least about the
passengers. And honestly, the way she was glaring at the cabin
made her seem a little unstable.
So, yeah, I'd rather be kicked off the flight than have to
depend on her. And my behavior might cause inconvenience for
others. But as it's often said, safety trumps etiquette. As long
as people are willing to cower to these FA's who abuse their
position for fear of reprisal, the airlines will do nothing to
address this type of behavior.
Sure I can lodge a complaint afterwards. But I also know that in
most airlines, the FA's are given a pass on most passenger
complaints unless it causes delays or public relations problems.
They only start getting in trouble if there is significant
number of complaints. And let's face it, once off the plane most
people are not going to be willing to follow up with a formal
complaint so their behavior never gets checked. And because most
crews seldom fly together anymore, there is not senior attendant
to address performance issues that occur on flights.
I'm not anti FA's. I've logged more than a million miles flying.
Most FA's are professional, courteous, and competent. I've had a
few that I thought should be a little politer to the passengers
but I've only had one confrontation with one.
#Post#: 7280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: LurkingGurl
Date: June 29, 2018, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> [quote author=lakey link=topic=432.msg7268#msg7268
date=1530291912]
> [quote]If I can't challenge them in the name of "security"
then they darn well better display professional enough behavior
to make me believe they are capable of acting professional when
the time comes.
--- End Quote ---
That's all good, except any challenging needs to be done once
the flight is over. I've spent evenings watching multiple
youtubes of people being removed from flights. There are a lot
of them. Sometimes the FA's appear to be making a big deal out
of nothing. The airline employees make the decision, like it or
not. In an argument, the passenger always loses. When other
passengers get involved it only makes matters worse. These
arguments don't only affect the couple of people involved in the
argument. They affect all of the other passengers, and any
passengers on other flights that that plane may be making for
the rest of the day.
These things cause delays, which means other passengers may miss
important business meetings, connecting flights, and other
travel plans, such as getting to a cruise. In most of these
instances one to three people were kicked off the plane, but in
a few the whole flight was canceled. All passengers had to leave
the plane. If you had been on that flight and had "rallied the
other passengers" and gotten them worked up, that very easily
could have been the result. If you've ever been at an airport
when a flight gets canceled and watched people running like a
mob to make alternate flights, it's a nightmare. Arguing while
on the plane only makes the situation worse. You won't win.
In the video of this incident, neither party was nasty or
aggressive. No one was yelling or swearing. No one was out of
control. It wasn't a big deal at all. The FA should have checked
to make sure that the phone was in AM, and then let it go.
Instead both of them got into a drawn out back and forth about
who said or heard what, or blah, blah, blah. The whole
conversation was pointless. It didn't look to me that the
passenger needed to be kicked off the flight. However, the way
to deal with that is after the flight is over, which is what the
passenger did by putting the video online. Let the public see it
and judge for themselves. THAT is effective.
[/quote]
Your missing my primary point. I would not feel as a passenger
that the FA in that video would be willing to perform her duties
in case of an emergency. Her overly aggressive behavior with the
initial passenger and then immediate threat to the man filming
to me implies someone who does not care in the least about the
passengers. And honestly, the way she was glaring at the cabin
made her seem a little unstable.
So, yeah, I'd rather be kicked off the flight than have to
depend on her. And my behavior might cause inconvenience for
others. But as it's often said, safety trumps etiquette. As long
as people are willing to cower to these FA's who abuse their
position for fear of reprisal, the airlines will do nothing to
address this type of behavior.
Sure I can lodge a complaint afterwards. But I also know that in
most airlines, the FA's are given a pass on most passenger
complaints unless it causes delays or public relations problems.
They only start getting in trouble if there is significant
number of complaints. And let's face it, once off the plane most
people are not going to be willing to follow up with a formal
complaint so their behavior never gets checked. And because most
crews seldom fly together anymore, there is not senior attendant
to address performance issues that occur on flights.
I'm not anti FA's. I've logged more than a million miles flying.
Most FA's are professional, courteous, and competent. I've had a
few that I thought should be a little politer to the passengers
but I've only had one confrontation with one.
[/quote]
The FA is trying to make sure that safety protocols are followed
by making sure that people's devices are in airplane mode. The
passenger was not complying. The passenger was the one putting
your life in danger, so really, the FA being overbearing is
"safety trumps etiquette." So, by your own metric you shouldn't
be taking exception to what she is doing.
The proper response of that passenger was to be completely
contrite, apologize for not following the prior directions and
show that her phone was in airplane mode. Or really, she could
have said nothing and put her phone in airplane mode without
also complaining the the FA was standing over her making sure
that she did as she was told.
But, I think safety trumps etiquette is what the FA was doing in
the first place.
#Post#: 7301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: guest725
Date: June 29, 2018, 3:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, I don't understand your logic. If you feel unsafe on a
flight, for whatever reason, why not just leave with an
explanation to the FA and ground crew, log your complaint with
them, get on another flight where a FA is nice and perky, and
then write the airline with the offending crew member's name? Is
your point to delay the flight, try to get other passengers on
your side while someone is recording your plea for solidarity
and if it goes viral, the video will be all over the internet
and you'll get a nickname that will further mock you?
So now you've been kicked off the flight, the plane takes off.
What have you accomplished other than ruining a lot of people's
schedules because you wanted to make a point?
#Post#: 7303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: KittyMama
Date: June 29, 2018, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mary Sunshine Rain link ---
>
>
> The FA is trying to make sure that safety protocols are
followed by making sure that people's devices are in airplane
mode. The passenger was not complying.
>
--- End Quote ---
But she WAS complying. The other passenger behind her who stood
up for her pointed out that she did comply.
#Post#: 7309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arguing with the Flight Attendant
DIR By: LurkingGurl
Date: June 29, 2018, 5:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: KittyMama link ---
>
> [quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
link=topic=432.msg7280#msg7280 date=1530299368]
>
> The FA is trying to make sure that safety protocols are
followed by making sure that people's devices are in airplane
mode. The passenger was not complying.
>
--- End Quote ---
But she WAS complying. The other passenger behind her who stood
up for her pointed out that she did comply.
[/quote]
The reason that the FA had to come over to her and tell her to
put it on airplane mode was because she had not complied to the
previous announcement.
Instead of just quietly putting her phone on airplane mode, the
passenger copped an attitude and objected to the FA standing
there until she did it. Instead of simply complying, she
started an argument with the FA. The passenger did that, not
the FA.
The FA had a good reason to tell her what to do and a good
reason to stand there while she did it. The fact that the
passenger didn't like that is just too bad. It would seem to me
to be a big overreaction to object to her standing there.
You're basically telling the person that works there how to do
their job when you're the one who didn't follow instructions in
the first place.
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