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#Post#: 5079--------------------------------------------------
How badly did I mess up?
By: Writer of Wrongs Date: June 11, 2018, 8:09 am
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Background: I work for an elected official, and it's an election
year. My current boss is seeking a different office, and there
are 2-3 candidates seeking the office I work for.
At my level of government, it's standard procedure for the new
official to replace the very top tier of staff with his own
people - usually long-time friends/colleagues whose judgment and
advice he trusts implicitly, or people with the political
connections and know-how to help further his goals. Employees
below that top tier, like myself, usually stay employed,
although our jobs may be restructured somewhat.
I've become fairly well-acquainted with both of the major-party
candidates for our office, and on the frequent occasions that we
are at the same events, chat with either or both of them. Both
have said they intend to keep any staff who wish to stay, and my
preferred candidate has told me personally and directly, more
than once, that he wants me to stay on staff. He is the odds-on
favorite to win the election.
/end background.
Last week, I was chatting with my preferred candidate, "Phil."
He mentioned that he would like to have "Joe" as his chief of
staff. However, Joe has another job in the pipeline that will
tremendously benefit him personally, professionally and maybe
politically.
Me: "Oh, that's too bad. I really like Joe, and he would be
great. But I'm happy that he has that opportunity. He's a good
guy."
Phil: "Since he's not available, I've approached 'Henry' about
being chief of staff."
Me: "Oh. Okay."
(Pause while people came by and spoke to Phil.)
Me: "Was he receptive?"
Phil: "He was."
(Pause for more people.)
Phil: "Would you have any reservations about Henry?"
I hesitated, then finally said, "I've never had a problem with
Henry. He's always been very nice to me, and was helpful when we
worked together for a couple of years. But I have heard that
some others have had problems... of the #metoo variety."
Phil looked absolutely shocked/horrified, and said, "We're not
having any of that. That will not be happening in my
administration."
I emphasized that I did not have personal knowledge or
experience of Henry misbehaving, and that I didn't know if it
was true. I told him that I would not want to harm Henry's
reputation and would never have said anything without being
specifically asked. And I said that Henry does have the skills
and connections that one would want in a chief of staff. But
yes, I have heard this allegation.
Phil assured me that the conversation would stay between me and
him. He looked deeply troubled the rest of the time that he was
at this event.
So. Did I become a gossip-mongering character assassin, or did I
provide potentially vital information? I think Phil is a decent
man of good character, and I believe him that he would not
tolerate harassment or assault. On the other hand, it's
third-hand information.
Did I screw up? (And peripherally, but important to me, did I
destroy my job's future?)
Note: I will see Phil at other events in the future, and I will
act as I always have. I will not bring this topic up again, so
if he doesn't ask me further questions, it will never be
discussed again.
#Post#: 5081--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: NyaChan Date: June 11, 2018, 8:27 am
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No clue about how this would affect your employment, but for me,
whether to say something would depend on what type of report you
are basing your comment on. If someone come to you and say he
he harassed them or their friend or it is something everyone
knows but just doesnt say to people above a certain level - like
the unspoken understanding to not send cute interns to his
office alone or whatever that’s one thing. Or are you basing
this on a rumor heard at a cocktail party 5 years ago where
someone says “oh I heard “someone” in the senior staff of that
office has an issue with being too friendly” and you are just
pretty sure they were talking about this guy. For me, there’s a
big difference between the them.
#Post#: 5088--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: Writer of Wrongs Date: June 11, 2018, 9:22 am
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[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=359.msg5081#msg5081
date=1528723670]
No clue about how this would affect your employment, but for me,
whether to say something would depend on what type of report you
are basing your comment on. If someone come to you and say he
he harassed them or their friend or it is something everyone
knows but just doesnt say to people above a certain level - like
the unspoken understanding to not send cute interns to his
office alone or whatever that’s one thing. Or are you basing
this on a rumor heard at a cocktail party 5 years ago where
someone says “oh I heard “someone” in the senior staff of that
office has an issue with being too friendly” and you are just
pretty sure they were talking about this guy. For me, there’s a
big difference between the them.
[/quote]
Actually, here's how I heard about it:
Henry and employee Sue were meeting in Henry's office. Henry
went into his en suite bathroom, came out with his pants
unzipped and told Sue to provide a certain service. Sue resigned
on the spot, and she told our mutual friend and colleague Pat
exactly why she was leaving. When I asked Pat why Sue had left,
Pat told me the story. According to Pat, there have been other
similar incidents, including requiring women to provide
"services" to get promotions or keep their jobs. Pat said those
incidents have been hearsay, but Sue personally told Pat about
her own experience.
#Post#: 5092--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: cleargleam Date: June 11, 2018, 10:25 am
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[quote author=Writer of Wrongs link=topic=359.msg5088#msg5088
date=1528726951]
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=359.msg5081#msg5081
date=1528723670]
No clue about how this would affect your employment, but for me,
whether to say something would depend on what type of report you
are basing your comment on. If someone come to you and say he
he harassed them or their friend or it is something everyone
knows but just doesnt say to people above a certain level - like
the unspoken understanding to not send cute interns to his
office alone or whatever that’s one thing. Or are you basing
this on a rumor heard at a cocktail party 5 years ago where
someone says “oh I heard “someone” in the senior staff of that
office has an issue with being too friendly” and you are just
pretty sure they were talking about this guy. For me, there’s a
big difference between the them.
[/quote]
Actually, here's how I heard about it:
Henry and employee Sue were meeting in Henry's office. Henry
went into his en suite bathroom, came out with his pants
unzipped and told Sue to provide a certain service. Sue resigned
on the spot, and she told our mutual friend and colleague Pat
exactly why she was leaving. When I asked Pat why Sue had left,
Pat told me the story. According to Pat, there have been other
similar incidents, including requiring women to provide
"services" to get promotions or keep their jobs. Pat said those
incidents have been hearsay, but Sue personally told Pat about
her own experience.
[/quote]
Wow. Just wow. I think it was important for Phil to have the
information. It's a shame Sue didn't put anything in writing,
and that you don't have it directly from Sue. I hope Phil
pursues this and Henry is removed. Even a one-off is
unacceptable.
#Post#: 5098--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: bopper Date: June 11, 2018, 12:42 pm
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I think if you heard if from a pretty direct source then you
did the right thing.
#Post#: 5101--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: NyaChan Date: June 11, 2018, 1:12 pm
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That’s pretty direct in my books!
#Post#: 5102--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: TootsNYC Date: June 11, 2018, 1:22 pm
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I think it all comes down to: do you trust Pat to be truthful?
And do you trust Sue?
You're two layers out, not one (since you never spoke to Sue),
so that makes it less solid. You're basing your comment on two
other people's word, and if you DO trust them, then I think you
were in a position to say what you did.
But I also think that, when you are directly asked, this sort of
information is important for the potential officeholder Phil to
have. If only because--if YOU heard about it as "scuttlebutt,"
other people will have heard it as well, and he doesn't want to
be blindsided after his decision is made.
Also--why WAS Phil asking you, if not to hear things like this?
The potential officeholder should have the brains to realize
that he needs to do some research, and have some intelligent
skepticism for ALL sides of the story until he's done inquiring.
People complain that the Me Too movement ruins people careers
and lives unfairly, but I would say that an OVER-REACTION is
what ruins people's lives unfairly. And people like Phil should
take their responsibility seriously and investigate carefully.
I sometimes feel that "people say" isn't that fair, because how
does someone like Phil follow up on that? So not naming names
protects the victims, but it doesn't allow people to investigate
accurately. I don't think you should have given Phil names, but
perhaps you should mention to Pat that she could talk with Phil.
#Post#: 5103--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: TootsNYC Date: June 11, 2018, 1:26 pm
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came back to say, in case I wasn't clear:
Phil needed to know that there was GOSSIP going around about
Henry. Not just about any actual actions, but about the fact
that there was gossip about it. Especially being that he will be
an elected official, and chiefs of staff are tightly tied to
them.
Finding out AFTER he appointed him that there have been even
just accusations would be greatly derailing for Phil's work on
behalf of those who voted for him.
#Post#: 5110--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: Writer of Wrongs Date: June 11, 2018, 2:27 pm
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[quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=359.msg5102#msg5102
date=1528741360]
I think it all comes down to: do you trust Pat to be truthful?
And do you trust Sue?
…
Also--why WAS Phil asking you, if not to hear things like this?
…
I sometimes feel that "people say" isn't that fair, because how
does someone like Phil follow up on that? So not naming names
protects the victims, but it doesn't allow people to investigate
accurately. I don't think you should have given Phil names, but
perhaps you should mention to Pat that she could talk with Phil.
[/quote]
Toots - you summarized the issue perfectly. I trust Pat
implicitly. Sue's a bit of a flake, but I don't think she would
make up something like this. Unfortunately, Pat has also changed
jobs and is no longer in contact with Sue or any of the other
women that this supposedly happened to.
I know that Phil picked up on my lack of enthusiasm when I
simply said, "Oh. Okay," in response to his mentioning Henry.
But I'm still conflicted, because you're right - "people say"
doesn't provide the necessary info to track the truth. I think I
did the right thing, but I'm certainly willing to hear that I
should have declined to elaborate. :-\ (And I did contact Pat
with a heads-up about the conversation, so Pat may choose to
contact Phil directly.)
#Post#: 5120--------------------------------------------------
Re: How badly did I mess up?
By: GardenGal Date: June 11, 2018, 3:29 pm
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From the updates, it sounds like you did the right thing. I
wonder why Sue resigned rather than bring a complaint to HR?
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