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#Post#: 3888--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: TootsNYC Date: May 29, 2018, 8:16 pm
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With gifts, it's important to let go of the control.
It's OK for people to get you things you don't like.
That's kind of the point of gifts, is for the giver to do the
picking. Your only role, technically, is to receive.
The point of gifts is NOT to transfer goods or services. (That
is called commerce, not giving.)
The point of gifts is for messages to be sent that say: I care
about you. I notice you. You are real to me. You are important
to me.
And dictating what the gift is kind of defeats that purpose.
When people say, "it's the thought that counts," it's not really
just "they thought to give me a gift at all"; the POWER is in
the "they thought about me, and about what would please me, and
what I'm like."
It's in "They SAW me. I am real to them."
Now...both with the history w/ your ex and his family, and ALSO
with your sister's desire to not shop for you, you aren't
getting that message. So I can totally understand your desire to
control this exchange.
(but you also have to be open to letting people choose how to
send it, so be sure you aren't expressing disappointment with
gifts that were mindfully and thoughtfully chosen but happened
to miss the mark. And remember exactly how crappy your ex-ILs
made you feel, and do NOT model their behavior)
(Also, don't assume that other people are crappy gift
recipients)
That said--some actual advice.
I am phenomenally easy to shop for, because I'm a
pipe-dreamer/blabbermouth and a cheapskate.
Pipe-dreamer/blabbermouth: I'm always talking about stuff I
think I might like ("I sometimes think I'd like to get a thin,
washable wool blanket"; "Ooh, I've got to get a pizza cutter
with a sleeve like this one of yours"; "I love that color of
sweater"; "I love that author, someday I should get his latest
book")
Cheapskate: I never buy these things for myself, and people know
it.
So, at gift-buying season, feel free to start dropping hints.
Just say things like, "Ooh, this is pretty, maybe I should get
one someday."
In our family, we have a rule that in your b'day month, you're
not allowed to buy stuff for yourself (unless you are absolutely
certain nobody will ever think to buy it for you).
How to be a good present buyer:
Listen.
And when you get an fleeting idea, write it down.
I have a Note on my phone for each person I buy presents for,
where I write down ideas when I get them.
I also keep an Amazon Wish List of ideas for different people
(you can make as many of those as you want; I have one for
almost everyone).
Also, set yourself some time ahead of gift-buying time to do a
little research.
And then...just as it's important for YOU to let go of the
control over the gift, remember that the recipients of your
gifts are obligated to THEMSELVES let go of that control.
And one last letting-go: It is not a requirement that you
"score" with every gift. Did you genuine try to choose something
that this specific person would like? Did you listen? Are they
"real" to you? Were you thoughtful?
If so, then remember that it's the thought that counts, and
focus on that. (And after you've given the gift a fair tryout,
donate it somewhere with no guilt.)
I'm sorry you've had such a crummy gift-giving history!
#Post#: 3953--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: bopper Date: May 30, 2018, 3:53 pm
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Your EX had a toxic/personality disordered family. Obviously
they were just using you. I am glad you got out!
Realize this is not normal.
I think I would tell my new BF about it...tell him the story and
say that gift giving occasions give you stress...but if he
doesn't mind you would like to work through it...would like it
to take it easy and start with wish lists.
#Post#: 4922--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: Hanna Date: June 9, 2018, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Have you read the book “The Five Love Languages”?
If not I highly recommend that you read it and use it as a basis
for a conversation with your BF.
It helped us to clarify what makes me feel loved in a
relationship. Gift giving isn’t a huge thing for me personally,
but I am so happy when I see that my SO did something little
just for me, like getting out a bath towel when I’m staying
over, because I know it means he’s thinking about me. Might
sound dumb, but that means as much to me as anything he could
buy.
I think your ex and his family sound like selfish, inconsiderate
people. If someone expects something of you that they aren’t
willing to give in return, it’s probably not a good situation.
As for your new BF, the advice from others to communicate with
him is great.
#Post#: 5261--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: bopper Date: June 12, 2018, 2:09 pm
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"The Five Love Languages” is a great book...for "normal" people.
But for his family I think they are toxic and you should just
stay away.
#Post#: 5655--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: Hanna Date: June 15, 2018, 10:27 am
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[quote author=bopper link=topic=294.msg5261#msg5261
date=1528830587]
"The Five Love Languages” is a great book...for "normal" people.
But for his family I think they are toxic and you should just
stay away.
[/quote]
Sounds like OP has a new boyfriend though.
#Post#: 11484--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: jazzgirl205 Date: August 15, 2018, 8:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=294.msg3888#msg3888
date=1527642996]
With gifts, it's important to let go of the control.
It's OK for people to get you things you don't like.
That's kind of the point of gifts, is for the giver to do the
picking. Your only role, technically, is to receive.
The point of gifts is NOT to transfer goods or services. (That
is called commerce, not giving.)
The point of gifts is for messages to be sent that say: I care
about you. I notice you. You are real to me. You are important
to me.
And dictating what the gift is kind of defeats that purpose.
When people say, "it's the thought that counts," it's not really
just "they thought to give me a gift at all"; the POWER is in
the "they thought about me, and about what would please me, and
what I'm like."
It's in "They SAW me. I am real to them."
Now...both with the history w/ your ex and his family, and ALSO
with your sister's desire to not shop for you, you aren't
getting that message. So I can totally understand your desire to
control this exchange.
(but you also have to be open to letting people choose how to
send it, so be sure you aren't expressing disappointment with
gifts that were mindfully and thoughtfully chosen but happened
to miss the mark. And remember exactly how crappy your ex-ILs
made you feel, and do NOT model their behavior)
(Also, don't assume that other people are crappy gift
recipients)
That said--some actual advice.
I am phenomenally easy to shop for, because I'm a
pipe-dreamer/blabbermouth and a cheapskate.
Pipe-dreamer/blabbermouth: I'm always talking about stuff I
think I might like ("I sometimes think I'd like to get a thin,
washable wool blanket"; "Ooh, I've got to get a pizza cutter
with a sleeve like this one of yours"; "I love that color of
sweater"; "I love that author, someday I should get his latest
book")
Cheapskate: I never buy these things for myself, and people know
it.
So, at gift-buying season, feel free to start dropping hints.
Just say things like, "Ooh, this is pretty, maybe I should get
one someday."
In our family, we have a rule that in your b'day month, you're
not allowed to buy stuff for yourself (unless you are absolutely
certain nobody will ever think to buy it for you).
How to be a good present buyer:
Listen.
And when you get an fleeting idea, write it down.
I have a Note on my phone for each person I buy presents for,
where I write down ideas when I get them.
I also keep an Amazon Wish List of ideas for different people
(you can make as many of those as you want; I have one for
almost everyone).
Also, set yourself some time ahead of gift-buying time to do a
little research.
And then...just as it's important for YOU to let go of the
control over the gift, remember that the recipients of your
gifts are obligated to THEMSELVES let go of that control.
And one last letting-go: It is not a requirement that you
"score" with every gift. Did you genuine try to choose something
that this specific person would like? Did you listen? Are they
"real" to you? Were you thoughtful?
If so, then remember that it's the thought that counts, and
focus on that. (And after you've given the gift a fair tryout,
donate it somewhere with no guilt.)
I'm sorry you've had such a crummy gift-giving history!
[/quote]
This is what I wanted to say but Toots did a much better job
than I could. Don't worry about someone getting you something
you want. Sometimes, the unexpected is the perfect gift. One
Christmas, my dh gave me an excellent quality inflatable kayak.
I didn't ask for it but I thought it was an extremely romantic
gift. Dh and I spend almost all of our time together. The only
time dh went off without me is when he went kayaking. The gift
told me that he wanted me to share this aspect of his life as
well. After 30 years, that's pretty sweet. You will enjoy
gift-giving much more if you concentrate on giving a cool gift
to others. The cool gifts will come to you in time. I'm sorry
you had to exchange gifts with such cruel, unhappy people. Is
your new BF thoughtful in other aspects of your relationships?
He will probably be thoughtful about gifts as well.
#Post#: 11553--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: Aleko Date: August 17, 2018, 8:10 am
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[quote]This is what I wanted to say but Toots did a much better
job than I could. [/quote]
Same here!
[quote]Is your new BF thoughtful in other aspects of your
relationships? He will probably be thoughtful about gifts as
well.[/quote]
Probably, but not necessarily. Present-giving is one of many
behaviours that we learn about well/badly/not at all in
childhood. If he grew up in a household where giving and
receiving presents wasn't a positive experience, or just wasn't
a thing at all, he may well fail dismally at it at first. My own
DH's family was in thrall to a toxic relative who would hand
over some money to his parents to buy him a Christmas present on
her behalf, and expected in return to be given a present costing
the EXACT same amount; if it cost even £1 less, there would be
h*ll to pay. The sheer labour and stress of satisfying Auntie
S's requirements not only sucked all the joy out of Christmas
presents for DH and his parents - when I met him, though he's by
nature a very generous person he still couldn't see the point
of them at all. He thought 'Why not just exchange a £20 note
each at Christmas and have done with it? Come to that, why do it
at all?'. It took quite a few Christmases together for him to
get it.
[quote]The point of gifts is for messages to be sent that say: I
care about you. I notice you. You are real to me. You are
important to me.
And dictating what the gift is kind of defeats that purpose.
When people say, "it's the thought that counts," it's not really
just "they thought to give me a gift at all"; the POWER is in
the "they thought about me, and about what would please me, and
what I'm like."
It's in "They SAW me. I am real to them."[/quote]
Yes, yes, YES. When DH and I first got to know each other he was
in charge of the in-house museum of a British institution. We
had only been out together a couple of times when I found on a
barrow a tattered 18th-century pamphlet written by the head of
that institution, priced at a couple of pounds. I agonised over
buying it for him - would it seem Too Keen, and embarrass us
both? - but eventually went for it (I deliberately didn't erase
the pencilled price, so he would know it wasn't expensive) and
was delighted and relieved that he appreciated it very much. But
I didn't realise till he told me, years later, that it had
really bowled him right over, for precisely these reasons: he
used almost the same words. "I realised you thought about me and
what I was interested in! Even when I wasn't with you! Wow!" And
he said that that grubby (and in itself quite dull) little
pamphlet was one of the most significant presents he has ever
been given.
#Post#: 11593--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: Twik Date: August 17, 2018, 2:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with Toots. When receiving presents, it's best to see
them as found money on the street of life. You're thrilled if
they are exactly what you want, but you're not disappointed if
they're not, because you weren't counting on them to be. You
realize that some people are really good at gifts, and some
people aren't, just as some people can easily write an eloquent
letter while some are stuck writing, "Dear Beloved. I am fine.
How are you? I hope you are well. Goodbye." Even though they
love you, gifts, like eloquence, are a skill.
And cut yourself slack on giving them, because people who love
you should recognize that as well. If you try to get them a nice
present, and they moan and whine about how it wasn't the thing
that was exactly what they wanted, they're not terribly nice
people to begin with.
I once read about someone giving her children presents. One, the
writer said, would complain if you gave them a white pony
because they wanted a palomino. The other, she said, "would be
happy if you gave them a dead worm and a head cold."
I've worked to always be the second type. Even if someone is
deliberately slighting me, why should I let that make me upset?
At least I know what type of person they are.
#Post#: 11899--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: NewHomeowner Date: August 22, 2018, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=294.msg11553#msg11553
date=1534511409]
Yes, yes, YES. When DH and I first got to know each other he was
in charge of the in-house museum of a British institution. We
had only been out together a couple of times when I found on a
barrow a tattered 18th-century pamphlet written by the head of
that institution, priced at a couple of pounds. I agonised over
buying it for him - would it seem Too Keen, and embarrass us
both? - but eventually went for it (I deliberately didn't erase
the pencilled price, so he would know it wasn't expensive) and
was delighted and relieved that he appreciated it very much. But
I didn't realise till he told me, years later, that it had
really bowled him right over, for precisely these reasons: he
used almost the same words. "I realised you thought about me and
what I was interested in! Even when I wasn't with you! Wow!" And
he said that that grubby (and in itself quite dull) little
pamphlet was one of the most significant presents he has ever
been given.
[/quote]
Exactly!!! Some of the best presents I ever received were
cheap, even used, often bought at a yard sale. But they were
gifts that the giver knew I needed and would appreciate. I am
very touched by those gifts. Money does not make the gift
better.
#Post#: 11932--------------------------------------------------
Re: I Need Some Advice
By: guest657 Date: August 22, 2018, 11:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You trust someone to pick out gifts for you by rejecting the lie
that the gift they choose symbolizes anything about your real
worth, or how much they care about you. (Obviously, except for
jerks who are intentionally trying to insult you. But that still
tells you nothing about yourself -- just that this jerk is
trying to be mean).
The only thing it shows about a well-meaning person is how good
they are at the skill/talent of picking out gifts.
If they sang "Happy Birthday" to you, and did it badly because
they are tone-deaf, would you feel personally hurt or devalued?
Of course not, because their tone-deafness has nothing to do
with you. Same with being bad at presents. Now, a tone-deaf
person can try very hard to get better at singing, but they'll
never be as good as someone with perfect pitch. Again, same with
presents. Someone who is bad at presents can learn your
preferences and get better over time if they work hard at it.
But that still doesn't guarantee that you'll like the gift.
If you feel like you want to give your new boyfriend a present,
just think about what you know about his likes and dislikes and
pick something that would make him smile. If you are going to
attend holiday events with his family, don't know them well, but
are reluctant to show up empty-handed, pick a less-personal gift
on the low end of your possible budget. There's a zillion lists
out there of appropriate "Secret Santa" type gifts or hostess
gifts you can make or buy for very little: A pretty candle, a
soap and lotion set, a picture frame, a bottle of wine,
coasters, bookmarks, mug cozies, winter scarves.
No reasonable person is going to be personally offended by a
cute mug cozy (even if it's not their style), and no reasonable
person is going to feel a crushing sense of obligation if you
give them some attractive bookmarks and they didn't get you
anything. If they do, you have discovered they are not
reasonable, which is useful information.
The TL:dr on this is, work on lowering the emotional stakes
around gifting & around other people's expectations. It's not a
switch you can flip and just suddenly not care overnight. But
you can be conscious of it and give yourself healthy self-talk
about it while you make intentional choices.
Speaking of self-talk, I notice that you used a lot of words
about coercion and obligation: "forced to attend" "required to
give" "have to" and so forth. And yet, when you righteously
noped-out of that situation with your awful ex and his family,
the sky didn't fall. Everyone in the situation is still alive.
Your ex and his family sound emotionally abusive, but you are
free.
In this world you don't actually "have" to do anything except
die. Everything else is a choice with upsides and downsides.
That's a morbid way of looking at it, but sometimes when the
emotional noise is getting overwhelming, that little shock can
cut through it.
You don't have to ever give or get another present as long as
you live, if you don't want to. Other people's expectations or
opinions are just electric charges inside their skulls that have
nothing to do with you. Other people's words are just noises
they make with their mouths. You get to choose who matters to
you, and how much.
That said, I hope you and your boyfriend both choose a very
happy relationship together and have a lot of fun making each
other smile with many types of affection and care - including
nice presents, if you want.
And FWIW, if I particularly like something that would make a
good present, I tell my husband "Hey, if anybody asks you what
I'd like for Christmas, I like these things/this author/this
color."
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