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#Post#: 80539--------------------------------------------------
"Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: SnappyLT Date: November 24, 2023, 6:48 pm
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I've received a "save-the-date" announcement about a "black tie"
wedding in my extended family coming up next July.
I was chatting with "George," an early-30s aged member of my
extended family, after Thanksgiving dinner yesterday. He and his
wife, too, have received the save-the-date announcement.
George told me he is annoyed about the "black tie" requirement
for guests. He was saying that he feels that while the
bride-to-be deserves to have whatever wedding she wants, he
thinks that should not include telling her male guests that they
have to go rent or buy a tuxedo just for one night. He said he
is very tempted to just buy a nice black business suit and
attend the wedding wearing a new black suit and bowtie. That way
he can at least wear the black suit to work in his office
sometimes as opposed to buying or renting a tuxedo he'd rarely
ever use again.
I did not suggest to George what I thought he should do.
I told George that I could see his point of view. (I, too, am
put off by the notion that the bride-to-be and her mother are
presuming to tell me as a guest how to dress for a wedding.)
On the other hand, based upon past experiences, I predicted to
George that the bride's mother might indeed be very upset with
George if he attends in a black business suit instead of a
tuxedo.
I told George that, for myself, if I decide to attend that
wedding, I will send in my RSVP card promptly and I will
reluctantly rent a tuxedo (even though I have a particularly
handsome dark navy blue suit already in my closet that I'd
rather wear).
What would you have told George if he had spoken to you?
#Post#: 80540--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: Aleko Date: November 25, 2023, 5:20 am
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As a general rule, it’s my understanding that the dress codes
‘white tie’ and ‘black tie’ need not be taken 100% literally by
guests (people with actual roles in the event, whatever it is,
are a different case). If you have it or feel inclined to hire
it, wear it. If not, wear the next-most-formal thing with all
the trimmings. So it’s acceptable to wear black tie to a
white-tie banquet, or a dark business suit to a black-tie
wedding (with a carnation in your buttonhole and a silk square
in your breast pocket, of course, to show you’re respecting the
festive formality of the occasion).
But family dynamics also matter. Your wording suggests that you
think the bride’s mother would be angry if any male guests
didn’t wear black tie. If so, this is not really so much an
etiquette question as a family-peace question. Are you or George
close enough to the bride or bridegroom to ask them what they
want or think? They might say ‘oh gosh, we didn’t want people to
feel they had to hire, only to get across that it is a formal do
- business suit is just fine’; if so, George knows he’s good to
go. On the other hand, they might say ‘oh gosh, if anyone turns
up in a suit Momzilla will be fit to be tied, and we’ll spend
our entire wedding day trying to placate her - please, for our
sakes, don’t do it’, In which case it’s his call whether to hire
the wretched thing or just decline gracefully.
#Post#: 80541--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: Rose Red Date: November 25, 2023, 7:54 am
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Multiple websites, including the Knot, says it's acceptable to
wear a dark suit with a black tie/bowtie. But I agree it depends
on if that means the bride or the MOB will disrupt the party by
making a guest uncomfortable by their attire. I'm not saying
it's right. I'd hate it if I'd need to buy a fancy floor length
gown that's only worn once (I have nice dresses but not black
tie level). But George needs to decide if he wants to keep the
peace, decline the invitation, or wear a suit and let the chips
fall where they may.
#Post#: 80542--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: DaDancingPsych Date: November 25, 2023, 11:23 am
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I would tell George that it's inappropriate to not follow the
dress code. As others have pointed out, his dark suit might be
quite appropriate, but I would probably seek advisement prior to
the invitation arriving so that I could make an informed
decision as to what to do.
If they truly want everyone to wear tuxes, when it sounds like
it's not the norm for your family's weddings, then they must
understand that some people will opt to not attend (or violate
the dress code.) It's entirely possible that the bride and
mother-of-the-bride have not thought this fully through. By
getting in touch with them for clarification, it may help to
alert them that the guests may not be willing to invest in a tux
(or evening gown) for this event.
#Post#: 80543--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: oogyda Date: November 25, 2023, 12:14 pm
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In my experience, people often overstate the formality of their
weddings.
Often, this is because they are declaring the formality of the
wedding party and don't really expect the same from their
guests. Plus most people don't really know what the terms used
in "dress codes" really means.
#Post#: 80544--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: Rho Date: November 25, 2023, 10:01 pm
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First let me state that my husband inherited, literally, his
fathers tux at age 37 so we have never had to worry about
renting one.
BUT why is it O.K. to ask guests to wear a certain colour or
wear dressy casual or festive yacht and no one thinks twice.
But black tie--oh my that is an imposition.
To answer your question I don't know on the spot what I would
have told George, if he should s_ck it up or smile and let him
think it's O.K. to bend the dress code.
Also--I was told after the fact of a bridal couple who
requested black tie optional knowing lots of guests would show
up in suits. Their plan was to let folks know not to show up in
jeans.
#Post#: 80545--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: shadowfox79 Date: November 26, 2023, 2:33 am
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I agree with what others have said, in that it's best to check
these things just in case "black tie" simply means wear
something nice.
I don't blame the couple for having a dress code. DH and I
didn't bother with one - as long as nobody showed up in their
work overalls we were happy - but this resulted in almost every
guest ringing us up to ask what they should wear. I didn't feel
I could put "wear something nice" on the invitations, but maybe
I should have.
And also every woman wants to know if she needed to wear a hat.
I have no idea why everyone was so obsessed with hats.
#Post#: 80546--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: Aleko Date: November 26, 2023, 3:37 am
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DDP, I think Autocorrupt for some reason turned your ‘alert’
into ‘alter’!
#Post#: 80547--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: Aleko Date: November 26, 2023, 3:56 am
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[quote]And also every woman wants to know if she needed to wear
a hat. I have no idea why everyone was so obsessed with
hats.[/quote]
Maybe because in Britain up till the 1950s or so at least, it
was absolutely de rigueur for women to wear hats to church, and
for any formal outdoor occasion. (Many older women even as late
as the 1950s didn’t contemplate going out of their front door
without a hat, ever.) So for the next half-century or so the
wearing or not-wearing of hats by women was a clear marker of
the degree of formality of an event, just as, for example, the
wearing of ties by men still is. But now that hat-wearing for
women has for decades only been obligatory at a few events with
archaic dress codes (eg the Royal Enclosure at Ascot), this is
no longer so: at a wedding these days you might see more hats
worn by the young and dashing than the staid and elderly.
#Post#: 80553--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Black Tie" wedding - question at the end
By: lowspark Date: November 27, 2023, 11:32 am
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Some people really do want every man invited to wear a tux and
every woman to wear a formal gown. I've seen it. And if you show
up in something else, you stand out like a sore thumb. On the
other hand, I've also seen where "black tie" just means suit for
the men and cocktail dress for the women. Only one way to find
out. Ask.
So to answer your question, I'd have told George to ring up the
bride and groom and ask if his black suit was ok. If so, good!
If not, then either get the tux or don't go.
As to the question about if a bride and groom have the right to
ask this, well, yeah. They do. Just as they have the right to
ask guests to travel to a "destination wedding". And the invited
have a right to decline the invitation if they choose not to
comply.
I don't think the guests should override the request though. If
the requirement is black tie, meaning that George is requested
to wear a tux, as verified by bride/groom, then he should either
wear one or decline the invitation.
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