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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 80302--------------------------------------------------
How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: jpcher Date: October 19, 2023, 4:35 pm
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. . . that doesn't seem to think your time is important?
I understand the pressure of upper management. They are always
super busy. But there is one Director (a step above manager, a
step below VP, so rather important in the grand scheme of
things) whom I've worked with for many years.
Let's call her Di.
When I was working in the office (before COVID) she'd say "I'll
stop by (my cube) in 15 minutes to discuss"
Okay, now I'm on Di-time (a fond phrase used by all). Could be
15 minutes (rarely) or an hour from notification when she shows
up to discuss her project.
All has been cool since COVID as I've been working remotely. No
face-time, stopping into my cube willy nilly, expecting me to
drop everything in order to cater to her last-minute requests.
There have been a few times when she said she'd call at Xtime,
and it was only 20 minutes or so later, so knowing Di-time, I've
learned to accept and plan on that.
Yesterday took the cake. She had a very important project that
needed to be completed asap. She emailed me details at 10 a.m. I
completed her request within an hour. She said "This looks
great, but I'm going to have to make some changes. I'll get back
to you within the hour."
Mind you, I sign off at 1pm. She knows this. At 12:50 she asked
if I would be willing to stay a bit later in order to make some
last minute changes. I said "Sure, how much later do you need me
to stay?"
She said "I'll call you in 10 minutes, is that okay?" I said
"I'll wait for your call." No call.
3:00 rolls around (I went about my day, checked back on my work
computer for any messages regularly) I finally sent her an email
"I'm about to sign off for the day. Is there anything else you
need from me today?"
She responded "I will call you at 3:30. Does that work for you?"
I sighed, and said "yes"
It wasn't until close to 4:00 that she finally called me back
with minor changes on the presentation which took me only about
10 minutes to complete.
'
Di-time is a joke. Known amongst many of her underlings.
Is there anything that I can say to her in order to stop this
rude behavior of hers? I mean, my time and schedule is just as
important as hers.
Thoughts? Please and Thank you!
#Post#: 80303--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: betty Date: October 19, 2023, 5:00 pm
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She SAYS the project needs to be done ASAP, but she doesn't ACT
like the project needs to be done ASAP. (Besides, ASAP is a BS
deadline. As soon as possible. It's not possible for you to do
work when you are done with work for the day.)
It sounds like you've trained her that you are always willing to
stick around or check in to deal with her unreliable timelines.
It's going to take some training to reverse that.
The first time she misses getting back to you in a timely
manner, remind her when you sign off of work. "Since I'm off
work at 1 pm, please email me the changes before you leave today
and I'll get them done when I come in tomorrow." OR "Since I'm
off work at 1 pm, I won't be able to meet with you after that
time. What time tomorrow works for you?"
Then stick to that script. It's reasonable that you stop working
when you are off work.
#Post#: 80305--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: EmmaJ Date: October 19, 2023, 6:20 pm
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It’s a rude power move, and I am so happy to be retired and no
longer have to deal with those folks. There are dozens just like
Di in every company.
Next time she wants you to do something past your work day and
says “Will that work for you?” you must say “I am so sorry, but
my work day ends at 1:00 so I made a critically important
appointment for 1:30. Can i make those changes first thing in
the morning?”
Every single time. You must train her to stop taking advantage
with either her horrible time management or her silly power
moves.
#Post#: 80306--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: Aleko Date: October 20, 2023, 12:49 am
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I’m with EmmaJ, all the way: you (and, from the sound of it, all
your colleagues?), have trained her to believe you are at her
beck and call any time, and that your time and schedule are
indeed not important at all.
If now you want to unmake this belief that you have colluded in,
you’re just going to have to push against it. You might prefer
to start small by saying ‘OK, you can call me up to 1.30: but be
aware that after that I will be unavoidably unavailable till
tomorrow’. And you stand by that; when 1.30 has come and gone
without her call, you let your phone go to voicemail.
And when she does learn to speak to you within the agreed time,
just say brightly, ‘OK Di, I’ve got the picture of what you
want, I’ll get on to it tomorrow morning’. Don’t let her think
you’re going to take any action on it till you’re on the clock
again.
#Post#: 80307--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: oogyda Date: October 20, 2023, 7:53 am
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I can't hit the agree button more than once, but I would like to
emphasize what EmmaJ and Aleko have said. Di will keep doing
what she's doing because it works. It's up to you to establish
boundaries and enforce them.
Nobody is going to value your time more than you, and you've
shown that you don't.
#Post#: 80311--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: DaDancingPsych Date: October 21, 2023, 6:22 pm
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Yes. Everything that you do with/for her has a hard stop. And
then stick with it.
And I agree that we need more agree buttons!
#Post#: 80312--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: Aleko Date: October 22, 2023, 1:39 am
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To be fair to Di, senior management often don’t have any
contracted hours at all; they’re just required to work whenever
and however long it takes to do their job. It may well be that
her superior calls her at any and all hours expecting to be
available, and she accepts this as normal but forgets that her
subordinates are employed on a different basis - and her
subordinates are colluding to not remind her.
Saying “I’ll [do X] in 10 minutes” and then not doing it till
hours later is as annoying as heck, certainly; but some people
are just like that, to their equals and even their bosses, if
they’re allowed to get away with it. I don’t think it’s fair to
describe this behaviour in a boss as a power play unless they
doing it deliberately, to yank a subordinate’s chain.
#Post#: 80317--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: jpcher Date: October 22, 2023, 12:21 pm
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Thanks all, I get what you're saying and appreciate your
responses . . . I've tried doing what you suggested (firm stop,
saying no to OT, etc.) but then she just goes to my manager and
the job is assigned to one of my co-workers who, then, has to
live with her rudeness.
Working OT is standard if the job requires it, part of pleasing
the customer and all that. It doesn't happen very often but when
the need arises the request should be complied with. It's not
the OT that bothers me. It's the scheduling that she makes and
doesn't stick to.
From Betty "She SAYS the project needs to be done ASAP, but she
doesn't ACT like the project needs to be done ASAP" -- true. I
have learned to ask "Is this going out today? What is the
drop-dead due time/date." and she is good with that.
I do agree with Aleko's last post. I don't think there's
anything malicious or an intent of power-play. I tend to think
that she's overly busy and maybe a bit scatterbrained. I'll get
emails from her time-stamped at 10pm. Or phone calls at 5:30am
(I clock in at 5am). So, she does have a long day. Not that I'm
defending her, her behavior still bothers me.
I work with plenty of other directors and VPs. None of them show
the behavior that Di does.
For what it's worth, I am in no way dotted or straight-lined to
her in the org chart. She's just another customer that I work
with. I could easily talk to my manager about this, but then the
problem would only move on to one of my co-workers. It wouldn't
be solved.
#Post#: 80348--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: Lkdrymom Date: October 26, 2023, 2:26 pm
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Until you stop being so available to her this will not change.
If your work day ends at 1pm and she asks you to stay so she can
get this done and doesn't get back to you until 3pm (when she
said 1:30) are you getting OT for that entire time? I would
start micro managing her...if she says 1:30, by 1:35 start
emailing her reminding her you stayed late because she said she
would have this to you by 1:30 and that you have other
commitments in the near future so you can't stay indefinitely.
She seems to think you have all the time in the world to sit
around waiting on her.
#Post#: 80354--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you deal with Upper Management . . .
By: NFPwife Date: October 26, 2023, 7:57 pm
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[quote author=jpcher link=topic=2555.msg80317#msg80317
date=1697995270]
....I could easily talk to my manager about this, but then the
problem would only move on to one of my co-workers. It wouldn't
be solved.
[/quote]
That line resonated with me. I've had the same attitude about
not shifting the problem to someone else and finally decided
that the problem wasn't going to be addressed or solved until it
was a problem for someone else. Sometimes, many other people.
I'd suggest talking to your manager and letting it shift to a
co-worker. When that co-worker experiences the same thing, maybe
some boundaries will be set for Di.
Another thought -- I grew up in a family business and had a
perspective that everyone was my customer (internally and
externally) and I went above and beyond for my customers. A
co-worker in another department taught me "Don't say no, say
'yes, but it will cost you.' " She worked in a department that
could bill customers for the extras they requested, I decided
that I was going to charge in terms of time, investment, hassle.
The requests I got most often were for special data reports or
exceptions to standard practices. So, I'd have the person write
their proposal and rationale for the exception and then schedule
a call with them to discuss it and then schedule a call with a
member of the board who would approve it. Guess how many
exceptions went through that process vs me filling out the
request to the board? About three. For data reports, I'd say,
"Review the data set for accuracy and pull (specific reports)
and then spend those to me." Requests for special reports
dropped too. Is there a way you could say, "Yes, but it will
cost you?" to Di?
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