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#Post#: 79272--------------------------------------------------
The etiquette of reciprocating
By: jpcher Date: May 10, 2023, 10:12 pm
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It's Birthday Week! ;D My DDs were born two years and one day
apart. So both of their bdays are this week. Long standing
tradition is that they can pick any restaurant they want for
their birthday dinner.
Tonight was DD#2's dinner. She invited her aunt, uncle and two
cousins, which was a bit unusual, but she said that since aunt &
uncle treated us for dinner a couple of months ago this would be
a good chance to reciprocate. I agreed.
Also invited were DD#1, her DH, DH's mom (a standard given),
DD#2's BFF and fiancé. I was fine with this even though it was a
larger party than usual.
When the bill came, I was quite surprised that many guests
pulled out their wallets and tried to pay their share. I
insisted that "It's my DD#2's bday, thank you all for coming and
sharing in this celebration." Ofter a couple of "Are you sure?"
and many thanks, all was done. It was my pleasure to host DD#2's
bday dinner. We all had a wonderful time.
When we left the restaurant and were all giving each other hugs
and good-byes, DD#1's DH whispered in my ear "We're taking care
of tomorrow's dinner." By his "we" I'm thinking his mother will
foot the bill . . . guessing in order to reciprocate for
tonight's dinner.
Tomorrow's dinner is DD#1's bday at a different (lower priced)
restaurant. Only guests will be DD#1, her DH, DH's mom and DD#2.
I said "No! It's my daughter's birthday, I'm hosting!"
We were interrupted so the conversation didn't get finished.
Now I'm wondering if I should let them pay for DD#1's dinner or
insist that "It's my daughter, I pay for her birthday dinner."
Side note -- a few years ago we (DD#1, her DH, his mom, DD#2 and
I) went out to dinner for DH's birthday. I offered to pay a
share and Mom said "It's my son. I pay for his birthday dinner."
That shut me up. No problem. I understand.
But now I'm wondering how to handle the situation for tomorrow's
dinner. Should I strongly insist on paying the bill? Or should I
just let it go?
Add to the above that we're going over to DH's Mom's house for
Mothers Day dinner. DH is spending the next couple of days with
me and wants to go shopping for food for the Mothers Day dinner.
Our wonderful children will do all the cooking and, I'm
thinking, will pay for the grocery bill. I'm thinking this is
reciprocation enough.
What are your thoughts?
#Post#: 79275--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: Gellchom Date: May 11, 2023, 3:26 am
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My primary thought is that it is wonderful that you all get
along so well and that everyone wants to be generous. So many
families have the opposite problem.
I’d play it by ear. This is far from the last such event in
your family, and things tend to work out fairly evenly over time
when everyone has this good attitude. It’s not like you were on
a weekend trip with friends or something where you want to hit
an acceptably fair distribution within that weekend.
So my advice is not to overthink this in advance. If after all
these events you feel like you need to make a correction, do it
later.
I do think saying you want to treat for your daughter’s birthday
is fine, but it’s also all right for her husband to do so, of
course. (Whether his mom contributes some or all is of no
consequence and their business, so of course you officially
don’t notice or even think about that! :) )
#Post#: 79278--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: Hmmm Date: May 11, 2023, 8:51 am
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My opinion is once married, the wishes of the spouse starts
trumping those of the parent. If your daughter's husband wishes
to pay for his wife's birthday dinner, than that is the way it
should be. I think it was gracious of him to alert you privately
of the change in who is actually hosting the event instead of
waiting until the bill arrives.
I'm not sure what precedent that is causing you to believe his
"we" means his mother. But I would leave that between him and
his mom.
#Post#: 79282--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: lowspark Date: May 11, 2023, 2:31 pm
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[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2497.msg79278#msg79278
date=1683813074]
My opinion is once married, the wishes of the spouse starts
trumping those of the parent.
[/quote]
I totally agree with this. If he wants to pay, graciously accept
and thank him.
#Post#: 79301--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: jpcher Date: May 15, 2023, 2:40 pm
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Thanks for your responses! I figured out a way to handle this
without any at-the-table protests. I excused myself at the end
of the meal, found the waitress and settled the bill. When I got
back to the table, I told everybody that we were good to go, the
bill was taken care of. Both SIL and his mom did protest mildly,
but since it was already done and they couldn't do anything
about it, they graciously thanked me. I thought it turned out
well.
HOWEVER!!! Boy, do I wish I read your responses prior to the
event.
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2497.msg79278#msg79278
date=1683813074]
My opinion is once married, the wishes of the spouse starts
trumping those of the parent. If your daughter's husband wishes
to pay for his wife's birthday dinner, than that is the way it
should be. I think it was gracious of him to alert you privately
of the change in who is actually hosting the event instead of
waiting until the bill arrives.
I'm not sure what precedent that is causing you to believe his
"we" means his mother. But I would leave that between him and
his mom.
[/quote]
Yeah. I really gotta remember the bold above. Now I feel bad
that I didn't honor SIL's wishes.
But! SIL did pay for the mother's day groceries. Does that
count?
No. No excuses or trying to get out of this one. I understand
that I was wrong.
I really do appreciate your comments.
#Post#: 79304--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: Rose Red Date: May 15, 2023, 5:51 pm
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[quote author=jpcher link=topic=2497.msg79272#msg79272
date=1683774767]
When we left the restaurant and were all giving each other hugs
and good-byes, DD#1's DH whispered in my ear "We're taking care
of tomorrow's dinner." By his "we" I'm thinking his mother will
foot the bill . . . guessing in order to reciprocate for
tonight's dinner.
[/quote]
I'm glad you realized you were wrong. I'm not sure why you think
DH's mother will foot the bill. DH is an adult and want to pay
for his wife's party. But even if his mom pays, it's what they
want and they gave you a heads-up clearly stating their wishes.
That's what the whisper was all about.
I'm not saying this to be mean, but your history indicates that
you enjoy paying, hosting, cooking, etc. for most or all events.
Please let go of control and let others enjoy being generous too
in the future. The DH was probably looking forward to hosting
for once and that was taken from him.
#Post#: 79319--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: NFPwife Date: May 17, 2023, 8:02 am
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[quote author=Rose Red link=topic=2497.msg79304#msg79304
date=1684191098]
[quote author=jpcher link=topic=2497.msg79272#msg79272
date=1683774767]
When we left the restaurant and were all giving each other hugs
and good-byes, DD#1's DH whispered in my ear "We're taking care
of tomorrow's dinner." By his "we" I'm thinking his mother will
foot the bill . . . guessing in order to reciprocate for
tonight's dinner.
[/quote]
I'm glad you realized you were wrong. I'm not sure why you think
DH's mother will foot the bill. DH is an adult and want to pay
for his wife's party. But even if his mom pays, it's what they
want and they gave you a heads-up clearly stating their wishes.
That's what the whisper was all about.
I'm not saying this to be mean, but your history indicates that
you enjoy paying, hosting, cooking, etc. for most or all events.
Please let go of control and let others enjoy being generous too
in the future. The DH was probably looking forward to hosting
for once and that was taken from him.
[/quote]
I agree with Rose Red. There are also cultural, generational,
and gender issues to consider. My husband, at any given time has
a mental list of people he "owes" reciprocity and he doesn't
like keeping things on the list too long. (Now that I'm thinking
about it he keeps mine too. I was going out with a friend and he
reminded me that she treated last time.)
In my husband's family, the youngest generation never pays. In
my family of origin it's more fluid and treating is a sign that
you're doing well financially; you've gotten your first "grown
up" job, you got a raise, etc.
Some men may be uncomfortable constantly being treated by a
woman. That's shifting generationally and may not be a factor
for SIL.
Finally, this could have been a conflict spot between the
couple. They'd clearly discussed it and DD was tasked with
pulling you aside to set it up. When you did the end run,
there's a chance SIL could have been frustrated with DD. A "You
had one job, setting it up so we would pay," annoyance.
#Post#: 79321--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: jpcher Date: May 17, 2023, 2:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Rose Red link=topic=2497.msg79304#msg79304
date=1684191098]
I'm glad you realized you were wrong. I'm not sure why you think
DH's mother will foot the bill. DH is an adult and want to pay
for his wife's party. But even if his mom pays, it's what they
want and they gave you a heads-up clearly stating their wishes.
That's what the whisper was all about.
I'm not saying this to be mean, but your history indicates that
you enjoy paying, hosting, cooking, etc. for most or all events.
Please let go of control and let others enjoy being generous too
in the future. The DH was probably looking forward to hosting
for once and that was taken from him.
[/quote]
To answer the bold above -- from my OP "By his "we" I'm thinking
his mother will foot the bill . . . guessing in order to
reciprocate for tonight's dinner." -- Through the many years
I've known them, I've seen how SIL and his mom interact. She
never lets him pay for anything. I'm not saying that's wrong,
it's just an explanation as to why I thought it was his mother,
not him, that would be paying the tab.
In fact, when they found out the dinner was already taken care
of, it was his Mom that mildly protested first "Oh! I wanted to
pay tonight!" SIL chimed in with his mild "you didn't need to do
that but thank you."
PVZFan -- it's interesting that you brought up the generational
aspect. From your post -- "In my husband's family, the youngest
generation never pays."
Thinking about it, I've always paid for my DDs and their
at-the-time dates/friends/whatever. My mother never lets me pay
for a meal out at a restaurant. I remember my mother fighting
with her mom about paying the tab. Probably the same reason that
SIL's mom insists on paying for SIL.
I don't know, maybe it's because us older generation people that
feel that we can afford certain extravagances more than the
younger generation? Why put a couple hundred-dollar tab on their
credit card when they are trying to save for purchasing a house,
or having a baby, or simply struggling to make ends meet?
[quote author=PVZFan link=topic=2497.msg79319#msg79319
date=1684328527]
Finally, this could have been a conflict spot between the
couple. They'd clearly discussed it and DD was tasked with
pulling you aside to set it up. When you did the end run,
there's a chance SIL could have been frustrated with DD. A "You
had one job, setting it up so we would pay," annoyance.
[/quote]
DD#1 was not involved in this conversation at all. The
conversation was between SIL and his mom, conveyed to me via
SIL.
eta: My DDs and SIL treated me to a very nice breakfast the next
day. Plus they paid for the groceries and cooked, using SIL's
moms in-stock ingredients, for the Mother's Day meal. SILmom
served wine, apps, an elegantly set dinner table and homemade
strawberry cream cheese ice cream for dessert. I think that a
warm/comfortable at-home hosting meal trumps going out to a
restaurant. I thoroughly enjoyed the day spent at SILmom's home.
#Post#: 79323--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: TootsNYC Date: May 17, 2023, 4:14 pm
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[quote] I remember my mother fighting with her mom about paying
the tab.[/quote]
Don't be your grandma. Let your kid pay for the meal now and
then, the way your mother wanted to.
#Post#: 79327--------------------------------------------------
Re: The etiquette of reciprocating
By: oogyda Date: May 17, 2023, 6:37 pm
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Regarding the generational aspect:
We always lived quite a distance from both of our FOOs, so when
they visited us, it was for days (usually about a week). Very
often I fretted about the added expense of feeding them, but
after a few times realized that they paid for most meals and
groceries I hadn't already bought. Over the years, that
changed. My parents had no retirement savings and were living
on a fairly limited income so they were much more willing to let
us properly host them and treat now and then when we visited
them.
DH's parents also let us host when they visited us and they
hosted when we were there. After FIL passed, MIL always wanted
to go out to eat when we were there and she always wanted to
pay. I could convince her to let us pay when it was her
birthday or on Mother's Day.
We are at the stage in our lives where we are very proud that
our children are doing well enough to host us. We are somewhat
distant from each other, so it covers several meals and will
often be discussed before there are arguments. Recently, I was
with ODD's family and her BIL, SIL and DNiece in a rental house
for a long weekend. They had arranged for groceries to be
delivered after our arrival, but I offered to pay for pizzas for
that first night since they were providing all the other meals.
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