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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 78493--------------------------------------------------
Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefit
By: Gellchom Date: January 25, 2023, 6:41 am
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We are invited to a birthday party for an old friend. It will be
a potluck party, she told us, “because that’s just so much
easier for everyone and then the guests know they don’t have to
bring a present.“
Now, I have no problem with potluck events. Indeed, I like them.
We are in two groups that have them regularly.
I don’t even care if it’s a hosted event, and the real motive is
to put the responsibility for and cost of the food on the
guests. I mean, it’s not especially gracious hosting, and I
wouldn’t hand her the prize for generous hospitality, but I’m
happy to do it, especially as she has been having some health
problems, although I think her grown daughter and son in law
would cheerfully help out.
The thing that left a sour taste is the way she put it, that she
was doing this for our sake.
I’m not sure why she thinks that passing off the task of
providing dinner to the guests is somehow easier for them - I’m
sure she knows it’s not. And I had to stifle a giggle at her
presumption that people would think a potluck would mean they
didn’t have to bring gifts - or for that matter, that people
would think they’d have to anyway. Even if that were the case,
it’s a whole lot simpler for me to buy a small gift then it is
to make or buy and transport a menu item to a party about 40
minutes away from here.
I’m not mad or anything. We are planning on attending the party
and will bring both a dish and a small gift (assuming that we
are even able to go - the party is scheduled for a Saturday
night and the weekly Saturday night protests and attendant road
closures here make getting in and out of our city very
difficult. Maybe she will reschedule. But I digress.) But we
do feel sort of eye-rollish about it.
I think this was particularly noticeable because of our memory
of the other party that she and her husband invited us to, which
was something like 20 years ago. In fact I think I may have
written about it on the old board. It was a very nice, large
party for their daughter’s bat mitzvah. The only thing I wrote
about was that it was a buffet and they didn’t assign tables,
and the husband (who is now deceased) saying, “Oh, we didn’t
want to be all stuffy; we wanted everyone to sit where they
want.” But of course what was happening as he said those words
was what we used to call on the old board “the school cafeteria
problem”; people were walking around with plates of cooling food
looking for tables with enough seats for the number in their
group and that weren’t already filled with used plates. I
seriously doubt that people (especially those in high heels)
were any happier with that, or with the seats they eventually
found, than they would have been if the hosts had taken the
trouble to arrange congenial tables.
The issue in that story wasn’t the open seating choice; it was
the same as this time, his presenting it as doing all of us a
favor (and I suppose in the process insulting everyone who did
it the other way).
We see this from time to time, don’t we? The first example that
springs to mind is “virtual” wedding and baby showers where the
hosts try to get the guests to send gifts without giving any
party at all. I don’t mean a zoom party; that’s still
something. I mean no party at all, just an “invitation” to drop
off or ship a gift - for the guests’ convenience, of course.
Yes, I know some people hate showers, but it’s still no more for
their convenience - after all, they can just decline the
invitation and drop off or send a gift – although I suppose it
relieves them from having to come up with an excuse!
What other examples have we seen?
I think that people do this because they think it insulates them
from being seen as lazy or ungenerous. But it doesn’t come
across that way, at least in my opinion. As I said, I don’t
mind a potluck at all, and although I don’t think open seating
works well for big events, I’m not offended or upset by it. It’s
the telling me that it’s for my benefit that makes them look bad
and, ironically, takes the shine off their own party a bit. I
think it’s better just to forget about trying defend your choice
and let the other person be gracious.
#Post#: 78494--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: Wanaca Date: January 25, 2023, 9:13 am
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"For your convenience". I absolutely despise that phrase. I
cringe and mentally growl every time I read it. Perhaps these
people picked up the phrase from the many businesses that use
that phrase every time they decide to lessen or even eliminate a
service. For your convenience, we've installed an automated
phone system for you to call if you have any issues. For your
convenience, we've eliminated human cashiers to check out your
purchases. For your convenience, we've installed electric hand
dryers (that don't dry your hands) instead of paper towels in
bathrooms.
There are so many examples of the use of the phrase in
businesses. The businesses haven't fooled me, and neither would
these people. "For your convenience" almost always means just
the opposite.
#Post#: 78495--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: Hmmm Date: January 25, 2023, 9:30 am
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At first I didn't realize the invitation was being extended by
the birthday person and I was agreeing that a potluck is just
usually easier for everyone because then no one has the bulk of
the cooking work (the host house still has the majority of the
work) and everyone is assured of having at least one thing they
would enjoy eating. But as I read further I realized my mistake.
I agree it's a clumsy turn of phrase for the birthday person to
use, even if I do agree with her. I hate trying to figure out if
gifts are expected and then trying to find a suitable gift that
won't just be clutter. If she had instead said "Please bring a
pot luck item to share and of course, no gifts" it would have
been much better.
#Post#: 78499--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: DaDancingPsych Date: January 25, 2023, 10:20 am
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Cash bars. I have seen cash bars being presented as "for your
convenience". You can't fool me; you just didn't want to pay for
the alcohol. That's fine, as it can be quite expensive and many
parties / gatherings don't require it. But then just don't have
an alcoholic bar. Offer the beverages that you can afford.
#Post#: 78502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: mime Date: January 25, 2023, 2:40 pm
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Valet parking is kind of a fit here. Restaurants that only have
$25 valet parking "for your convenience" doesn't feel like it
was really done for my benefit as much as, say, a $5 self-serve
lot.
If you need to do it that way, that's fine. Just don't try to
convince me that you were really thinking about me first.
#Post#: 78503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: Hmmm Date: January 25, 2023, 3:29 pm
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[quote author=pjeans link=topic=2456.msg78502#msg78502
date=1674679248]
Valet parking is kind of a fit here. Restaurants that only have
$25 valet parking "for your convenience" doesn't feel like it
was really done for my benefit as much as, say, a $5 self-serve
lot.
If you need to do it that way, that's fine. Just don't try to
convince me that you were really thinking about me first.
[/quote]
Yep, this is the one that always drives me crazy. Seldom is
valet for my convenience if a restaurant has blocked off all
parking for the valet. I'm not talking about places that stack
up cars and need to move them around. But ones were there is
enough parking but the restaurant wants to control which cars
get to be parked up front.
#Post#: 78508--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: honeybee42 Date: January 26, 2023, 6:16 am
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"For your convenience" is a phrase that I did use once in a
work-related situation, and while it was justified, I also felt
that I was being extremely snarky (also justified, but it was a
very fine line between professional and snark).
At that time, one of my job duties included writing appeals to
medical insurance when they had denied something that had been
part of the patient's care. In this particular case, I had a
gentleman who was hemophiliac and had a cancer of relatively
low-mortality but high-recurrence rates that required surgical
interventions. It happens that there is a (at least at that
time) very expensive medication that can be given to a
hemophiliac prior to surgery which, in effect, replaces the
missing clotting factor so that the patient will not have more
blood loss than a non-hemophiliac patient. By expensive, I mean
that the billed amount for this one drug was $90,000 (for which
the insurance was contracted to pay about $70,000). Well, the
insurance denied said expensive drug saying "not medically
necessary"--and they wanted me to bill the patient for the $90k
drug. So I went through my usual procedure--request full
medical records for the care in question and go to the
insurance's web page for medical necessity policies. The med
necessity policies would say something like
"investigational/experimental in all cases" (so no need to
appeal, because it could not be won) or "medically necessary if
A and B and C and D are true" or "medically necessary if A and B
or C or D are true". Found my medical policy, and he did fit
the medical necessity criteria of the insurance. So I wrote up
my letter "per policy MED1234" and quoted the policy verbatim
and then detailed how the patient met all the criteria. Sent
off the whole package--medical records in this particular case
were fairly short, about 15 pages.
Insurance came back with "we are maintaining our decision
because there is no evidence that patient had a surgery on the
date. This is our final decision." I looked at that, said "oh
**** no, it's not your final decision" and went back to the
person who printed the medical records and asked her to please
print *only* the operative report (which had been pages 9-10 of
the complete records) and wrote a new appeal letter telling them
that they had made an error in their decision and needed to
reverse the decision and pay for the patient's medication. Said
letter did include the phrase "for your convenience, I am
attaching an additional copy of the operative report for the
surgery the patient had on [date], previously pages 9-10 in the
medical records attached to my prior correspondence dated [the
date I'd sent the first appeal]".
They came back "we received new information" and overturned
their decision and paid for everything they were contractually
obligated to pay for. I just kind of shook my head "whatever
helps you sleep at night" since they couldn't just say "we
overlooked important information and made a mistake".
I really miss having appeal writing as part of my job duties.
But in that particular case, the "for your convenience" felt
completely justifiable.
#Post#: 78511--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: Hmmm Date: January 26, 2023, 9:08 am
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honeybee, that was some amazing work.
#Post#: 78520--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: honeybee42 Date: January 27, 2023, 5:57 am
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Writing appeals was one of the most satisfying parts of my job
(and I still miss it--the company decided to outsource appeals
so I didn't get to do it anymore, probably because I was the
only one of my co-workers who saw it as more than a matter of
bringing in the $$ but really as a matter of standing in the gap
on behalf of the patient to make the insurance company cover
everything they had contracted to pay--patients would have a
contract with their insurance and the insurance had a contract
with the facility). I won almost all of my appeals because I
was very thorough and methodical (and if I needed to hard
document something like a patient's ECOG status for a chemo drug
and it wasn't in the chart, I'd call up patient's oncologist's
office, explain who I was, what I needed and get a fax within
the next 20 minutes--that was one of my first high dollar
appeals ever, and the rassnfrassn insurance company tried
denying the patient's chemo drug every month over the course of
the chemo, I appealed, they'd pay and then the next month's bill
came to them and we'd repeat the cycle. That particular case
brought in about a third of a million dollars by the time the
chemo completed, but I was more concerned with 'you are not
going to (bleep) with my patient; patient has enough on the
plate with chemo').
#Post#: 78552--------------------------------------------------
Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
t
By: TootsNYC Date: January 30, 2023, 10:56 am
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I agree with you.
I used to hear couples plan a destination wedding and then say,
out loud to everyone else, "It's less expensive."
Like--for YOU it's less expensive to rent a venue in Belize than
in your own town, or in a town where people could drive with two
to four people in a car, or stay with a relative. But it's not
less expensive for your guests!
And then people will say, "we don't have to invite as many
people" or "we won't have as many people coming." So hurtful.
Plan an event far away so you can have an excuse not to invite
me, or so you can coerce me into declining because it's simply
too expensive. You get to look good, I get the regret.
Listen, if those are your reasons, fine--but for heaven's sake,
DON'T SAY IT
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