URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Bad Manners and Brimstone
  HTML https://badmanners.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Entertaining and Hospitality
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 78493--------------------------------------------------
       Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefit
       By: Gellchom Date: January 25, 2023, 6:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       We are invited to a birthday party for an old friend. It will be
       a potluck party, she told us, “because that’s just so much
       easier for everyone and then the guests know they don’t have to
       bring a present.“
       Now, I have no problem with potluck events. Indeed, I like them.
       We are in two groups that have them regularly.
       I don’t even care if it’s a hosted event, and the real motive is
       to put the responsibility for and cost of the food on the
       guests.  I mean, it’s not especially gracious hosting, and I
       wouldn’t hand her the prize for generous hospitality, but I’m
       happy to do it, especially as she has been having some health
       problems, although I think her grown daughter and son in law
       would cheerfully help out.
       The thing that left a sour taste is the way she put it, that she
       was doing this for our sake.
       I’m not sure why she thinks that passing off the task of
       providing dinner to the guests is somehow easier for them - I’m
       sure she knows it’s not.  And I had to stifle a giggle at her
       presumption that people would think a potluck would mean they
       didn’t have to bring gifts - or for that matter, that people
       would think they’d have to anyway.  Even if that were the case,
       it’s a whole lot simpler for me to buy a small gift then it is
       to make or buy and transport a menu item to a party about 40
       minutes away from here.
       I’m not mad or anything. We are planning on attending the party
       and will bring both a dish and a small gift (assuming that we
       are even able to go - the party is scheduled for a Saturday
       night and the weekly Saturday night protests and attendant road
       closures here make getting in and out of our city very
       difficult.  Maybe she will reschedule.  But I digress.)  But we
       do feel sort of eye-rollish about it.
       I think this was particularly noticeable because of our memory
       of the other party that she and her husband invited us to, which
       was something like 20 years ago. In fact I think I may have
       written about it on the old board. It was a very nice, large
       party for their daughter’s bat mitzvah.  The only thing I wrote
       about was that it was a buffet and they didn’t assign tables,
       and the husband (who is now deceased) saying, “Oh, we didn’t
       want to be all stuffy; we wanted everyone to sit where they
       want.”  But of course what was happening as he said those words
       was what we used to call on the old board “the school cafeteria
       problem”; people were walking around with plates of cooling food
       looking for tables with enough seats for the number in their
       group and that weren’t already filled with used plates. I
       seriously doubt that people (especially those in high heels)
       were any happier with that, or with the seats they eventually
       found, than they would have been if the hosts had taken the
       trouble to arrange congenial tables.
       The issue in that story wasn’t the open seating choice; it was
       the same as this time, his presenting it as doing all of us a
       favor (and I suppose in the process insulting everyone who did
       it the other way).
       We see this from time to time, don’t we? The first example that
       springs to mind is “virtual” wedding and baby showers where the
       hosts try to get the guests to send gifts without giving any
       party at all.  I don’t mean a zoom party; that’s still
       something.  I mean no party at all, just an “invitation” to drop
       off or ship a gift - for the guests’ convenience, of course.
       Yes, I know some people hate showers, but it’s still no more for
       their convenience - after all, they can just decline the
       invitation and drop off or send a gift – although I suppose it
       relieves them from having to come up with an excuse!
       What other examples have we seen?
       I think that people do this because they think it insulates them
       from being seen as lazy or ungenerous.  But it doesn’t come
       across that way, at least in my opinion.  As I said, I don’t
       mind a potluck at all, and although I don’t think open seating
       works well for big events, I’m not offended or upset by it. It’s
       the telling me that it’s for my benefit that makes them look bad
       and, ironically, takes the shine off their own party a bit. I
       think it’s better just to forget about trying defend your choice
       and let the other person be gracious.
       #Post#: 78494--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: Wanaca Date: January 25, 2023, 9:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "For your convenience".  I absolutely despise that phrase.  I
       cringe and mentally growl every time I read it.  Perhaps these
       people picked up the phrase from the many businesses that use
       that phrase every time they decide to lessen or even eliminate a
       service.  For your convenience, we've installed an automated
       phone system for you to call if you have any issues.  For your
       convenience, we've eliminated human cashiers to check out your
       purchases.  For your convenience, we've installed electric hand
       dryers (that don't dry your hands) instead of paper towels in
       bathrooms.
       There are so many examples of the use of the phrase in
       businesses.  The businesses haven't fooled me, and neither would
       these people.  "For your convenience" almost always means just
       the opposite.
       #Post#: 78495--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: Hmmm Date: January 25, 2023, 9:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       At first I didn't realize the invitation was being extended by
       the birthday person and I was agreeing that a potluck is just
       usually easier for everyone because then no one has the bulk of
       the cooking work (the host house still has the majority of the
       work) and everyone is assured of having at least one thing they
       would enjoy eating. But as I read further I realized my mistake.
       I agree it's a clumsy turn of phrase for the birthday person to
       use, even if I do agree with her. I hate trying to figure out if
       gifts are expected and then trying to find a suitable gift that
       won't just be clutter. If she had instead said "Please bring a
       pot luck item to share and of course, no gifts" it would have
       been much better.
       #Post#: 78499--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: DaDancingPsych Date: January 25, 2023, 10:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Cash bars. I have seen cash bars being presented as "for your
       convenience". You can't fool me; you just didn't want to pay for
       the alcohol. That's fine, as it can be quite expensive and many
       parties / gatherings don't require it. But then just don't have
       an alcoholic bar. Offer the beverages that you can afford.
       #Post#: 78502--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: mime Date: January 25, 2023, 2:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Valet parking is kind of a fit here. Restaurants that only have
       $25 valet parking "for your convenience" doesn't feel like it
       was really done for my benefit as much as, say, a $5 self-serve
       lot.
       If you need to do it that way, that's fine. Just don't try to
       convince me that you were really thinking about me first.
       #Post#: 78503--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: Hmmm Date: January 25, 2023, 3:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=pjeans link=topic=2456.msg78502#msg78502
       date=1674679248]
       Valet parking is kind of a fit here. Restaurants that only have
       $25 valet parking "for your convenience" doesn't feel like it
       was really done for my benefit as much as, say, a $5 self-serve
       lot.
       If you need to do it that way, that's fine. Just don't try to
       convince me that you were really thinking about me first.
       [/quote]
       Yep, this is the one that always drives me crazy. Seldom is
       valet for my convenience if a restaurant has blocked off all
       parking for the valet. I'm not talking about places that stack
       up cars and need to move them around. But ones were there is
       enough parking but the restaurant wants to control which cars
       get to be parked up front.
       #Post#: 78508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: honeybee42 Date: January 26, 2023, 6:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "For your convenience" is a phrase that I did use once in a
       work-related situation, and while it was justified, I also felt
       that I was being extremely snarky (also justified, but it was a
       very fine line between professional and snark).
       At that time, one of my job duties included writing appeals to
       medical insurance when they had denied something that had been
       part of the patient's care.  In this particular case, I had a
       gentleman who was hemophiliac and had a cancer of relatively
       low-mortality but high-recurrence rates that required surgical
       interventions.  It happens that there is a (at least at that
       time) very expensive medication that can be given to a
       hemophiliac prior to surgery which, in effect, replaces the
       missing clotting factor so that the patient will not have more
       blood loss than a non-hemophiliac patient.  By expensive, I mean
       that the billed amount for this one drug was $90,000 (for which
       the insurance was contracted to pay about $70,000).  Well, the
       insurance denied said expensive drug saying "not medically
       necessary"--and they wanted me to bill the patient for the $90k
       drug.  So I went through my usual procedure--request full
       medical records for the care in question and go to the
       insurance's web page for medical necessity policies.  The med
       necessity policies would say something like
       "investigational/experimental in all cases" (so no need to
       appeal, because it could not be won) or "medically necessary if
       A and B and C and D are true" or "medically necessary if A and B
       or C or D are true".  Found my medical policy, and he did fit
       the medical necessity criteria of the insurance.  So I wrote up
       my letter "per policy MED1234" and quoted the policy verbatim
       and then detailed how the patient met all the criteria.  Sent
       off the whole package--medical records in this particular case
       were fairly short, about 15 pages.
       Insurance came back with "we are maintaining our decision
       because there is no evidence that patient had a surgery on the
       date.  This is our final decision."  I looked at that, said "oh
       **** no, it's not your final decision" and went back to the
       person who printed the medical records and asked her to please
       print *only* the operative report (which had been pages 9-10 of
       the complete records) and wrote a new appeal letter telling them
       that they had made an error in their decision and needed to
       reverse the decision and pay for the patient's medication.  Said
       letter did include the phrase "for your convenience, I am
       attaching an additional copy of the operative report for the
       surgery the patient had on [date], previously pages 9-10 in the
       medical records attached to my prior correspondence dated [the
       date I'd sent the first appeal]".
       They came back "we received new information" and overturned
       their decision and paid for everything they were contractually
       obligated to pay for.  I just kind of shook my head "whatever
       helps you sleep at night" since they couldn't just say "we
       overlooked important information and made a mistake".
       I really miss having appeal writing as part of my job duties.
       But in that particular case, the "for your convenience" felt
       completely justifiable.
       #Post#: 78511--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: Hmmm Date: January 26, 2023, 9:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       honeybee, that was some amazing work.
       #Post#: 78520--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: honeybee42 Date: January 27, 2023, 5:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Writing appeals was one of the most satisfying parts of my job
       (and I still miss it--the company decided to outsource appeals
       so I didn't get to do it anymore, probably because I was the
       only one of my co-workers who saw it as more than a matter of
       bringing in the $$ but really as a matter of standing in the gap
       on behalf of the patient to make the insurance company cover
       everything they had contracted to pay--patients would have a
       contract with their insurance and the insurance had a contract
       with the facility).  I won almost all of my appeals because I
       was very thorough and methodical (and if I needed to hard
       document something like a patient's ECOG status for a chemo drug
       and it wasn't in the chart, I'd call up patient's oncologist's
       office, explain who I was, what I needed and get a fax within
       the next 20 minutes--that was one of my first high dollar
       appeals ever, and the rassnfrassn insurance company tried
       denying the patient's chemo drug every month over the course of
       the chemo, I appealed, they'd pay and then the next month's bill
       came to them and we'd repeat the cycle.  That particular case
       brought in about a third of a million dollars by the time the
       chemo completed, but I was more concerned with 'you are not
       going to (bleep) with my patient; patient has enough on the
       plate with chemo').
       #Post#: 78552--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Just don’t tell your guests you’re doing it for THEIR benefi
       t
       By: TootsNYC Date: January 30, 2023, 10:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I agree with you.
       I used to hear couples plan a destination wedding and then say,
       out loud to everyone else, "It's less expensive."
       Like--for YOU it's less expensive to rent a venue in Belize than
       in your own town, or in a town where people could drive with two
       to four people in a car, or stay with a relative. But it's not
       less expensive for your guests!
       And then people will say, "we don't have to invite as many
       people" or "we won't have as many people coming." So hurtful.
       Plan an event far away so you can have an excuse not to invite
       me, or so you can coerce me into declining because it's simply
       too expensive. You get to look good, I get the regret.
       Listen, if those are your reasons, fine--but for heaven's sake,
       DON'T SAY IT
       *****************************************************
   DIR Next Page