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#Post#: 75923--------------------------------------------------
Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip - update post 17
By: Sweet Jane Date: June 17, 2022, 12:50 pm
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My daughter Ava's girl scout troop is taking a weeklong beach
trip to a site that's a several-hour plane ride from home. The
girls have been saving for this trip for years, and they rented
a beach house big enough for six girls (13-14 y.o.) and two
chaperones. They are visiting various sites and relaxing at the
beach for a week.
Ava has been texting me frequently about one of the girls, Suzy,
who is annoying everyone on the trip. Suzy doesn't get along
with other kids. She wants to be the center of attention 100% of
the time and her favorite attention-seeking strategies are to
pick fights with other kids or accuse them of hating her. She
once admitted to Ava that she likes to make people angry at her
because she's guaranteed to get their attention. She also
complains that she feels like none of the scouts like her.
The chaperones are doing their best to help the girls develop
strategies to deal with Suzy - generally, walking away from her
- but that seems to enrage her and she will stand in the common
area screaming about how the girls are "excluding her" by
walking away. As the girls get better at not engaging the crazy,
Suzy has been starting fights with the chaperones instead.
Ava doesn't like the tension - she wants a calm, relaxing week.
But she's stuck in the house with this kid for a few more days.
What can I tell my kid about how to enjoy the trip despite Suzy?
#Post#: 75924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: sandisadie Date: June 17, 2022, 2:06 pm
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Having raised two sisters from the ages of 9 and 10, I will say
that girls in early teens are not usually calm or relaxed very
often. It's always seems to be something. I have to feel a
small bit of concern for the troubled girl. I'm sure she's
right that the others in the house don't like her much. I hope
your daughter will be able to make some good memories in spite
of this girl. What a shame.
#Post#: 75926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: Rose Red Date: June 17, 2022, 3:28 pm
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Is your daughter one of the kids or a chaperone?
It's true early teens are not calm or relaxed, but there's a
difference between fun excitement and picking fight and
screaming to be the center of attention. I can't help but wonder
what Suzy's home life if like. But her home life is not
something another child can or should deal with. If your DD is
one of the kids, I guess all she can do is keep walking away. Or
say straight to Suzy that she can have friends if she act nice;
that her meltdowns are driving people away.
#Post#: 75931--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: Hmmm Date: June 17, 2022, 8:10 pm
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If I were one of the chaperone's I would be calling the girls
parents and telling them she was on the next plane home.
Standing around yelling is unacceptable behavior.
But continuing to not engage and just saying "I AM excluding you
because you keep yelling at me. You have no right to ruin our
vacation."
#Post#: 75932--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: lakey Date: June 17, 2022, 8:38 pm
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[quote]If I were one of the chaperone's I would be calling the
girls parents and telling them she was on the next plane home.
Standing around yelling is unacceptable behavior. [/quote]
That's a safety issue and probably not an option. My suspicion
is that, not only the girls, but also the adults knew that this
girl had these kinds of behavior and social problems. Taking her
on an out of state trip like this was a mistake. At least if the
trip had been close to home, the parents could be told to come
and get her. Everyone is probably going to have to accept the
situation and do the best they can for the last few days.
I'm a retired elementary school teacher. I've had the occasional
student who craves attention and will behave in an obnoxious
manner to get it. It creates a vicious cycle where the more the
other children reject her, the worse she acts. There is help
for a child like this. I had one particular student who was very
similar. She worked with a school social worker who helped her
develop better social skills. An adult working one on one with a
child like this can convince her that her behavior is causing
others to dislike her. Also, part of the problem here is that
the girls are a few years older. Middle school aged girls can
become more open in their dislike. If her behavior is as bad as
described, she needs help, I hope she gets it.
#Post#: 75933--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: Sweet Jane Date: June 17, 2022, 10:11 pm
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OP here. My daughter is one of the scouts, not a chaperone.
[quote author=lakey link=topic=2357.msg75932#msg75932
date=1655516302]
My suspicion is that, not only the girls, but also the adults
knew that this girl had these kinds of behavior and social
problems. Taking her on an out of state trip like this was a
mistake. At least if the trip had been close to home, the
parents could be told to come and get her. Everyone is probably
going to have to accept the situation and do the best they can
for the last few days.
[/quote]
Yes, the girls and chaperones knew about Suzy's behavior. The
troop leader outlined behavior expectations with the girls for
months before the trip, and asked parents not to send their
children if they didn't believe that the child could behave
appropriately for a week without parents present. All of the
troop parents said they did not believe their child would be a
problem.
[quote author=lakey link=topic=2357.msg75932#msg75932
date=1655516302]
I'm a retired elementary school teacher. I've had the occasional
student who craves attention and will behave in an obnoxious
manner to get it. It creates a vicious cycle where the more the
other children reject her, the worse she acts. There is help
for a child like this. I had one particular student who was very
similar. She worked with a school social worker who helped her
develop better social skills. An adult working one on one with a
child like this can convince her that her behavior is causing
others to dislike her.
[/quote]
To be honest, I think Suzy's parents get in the way of her
social development. Suzy's mom is very much opposed to any
suggestion that Suzy might need help. She told me that she
doesn't understand why kids don't like Suzy and believes that if
kids would just pay more attention to Suzy then she'd be nicer
to them.
[quote author=lakey link=topic=2357.msg75932#msg75932
date=1655516302]
Also, part of the problem here is that the girls are a few years
older. Middle school aged girls can become more open in their
dislike.
[/quote]
Oh, yes. I know that the older my daughter gets, the harder it
is for her to disguise her dislike.
[quote author=lakey link=topic=2357.msg75932#msg75932
date=1655516302]
If her behavior is as bad as described, she needs help, I hope
she gets it.
[/quote]
Like I said, her mother is very opposed to suggestions that
Suzy's behavior is anything other than normal. I can't imagine
how she will function in adulthood.
#Post#: 75935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: jpcher Date: June 18, 2022, 5:00 am
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[quote author=Sheena link=topic=2357.msg75923#msg75923
date=1655488251]
The chaperones are doing their best to help the girls develop
strategies to deal with Suzy - generally, walking away from her
- but that seems to enrage her and she will stand in the common
area screaming about how the girls are "excluding her" by
walking away. As the girls get better at not engaging the crazy,
Suzy has been starting fights with the chaperones instead.
[/quote]
I'm not a psychologist nor a teacher, but I have raised two
daughters who were once (tween/early teen) at total odds with
each other, but are now best friends.
I think that the above approach is wrong. By telling the other
guests to walk away from Suzy, not engage with her, it only
compounds the problem, leaving Suzy to feel that she is correct
in her thinking that nobody likes her which is making her feel
left out so she is striking back in anger.
Plus there is probably the fact that all the other girls are
talking smack about Suzy . . . and Suzy will feel this.
I suggest turning the tables. Instead of walking away from Suzy,
give her what she needs*. Possibly coach your daughter to invite
Suzy on a hike with the rest of the girls . . . Include her
instead of ignore her. The other GSs could engage her in
conversation. Say positive things like "Isn't this view the Ult?
(LOL) What do you think, Suzy?"
*I know, I know, engaging the crazy isn't the norm. But enjoying
the next few days might be worth indulging Suzy's craziness . .
. simply so that one persons attitude doesn't ruin the entire
event for everyone. After all, from what it sounds like, Suzy is
doing just that and she's the one that's winning in a bad way.
Kill her with kindness.
The Girl Scout Oath states:
The Girl Scout Law I will do my best to be honest and fair,
friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and
strong, and responsible for what I say and do, and to respect
myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make
the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.
I might be talking out of my ear right now, but maybe this could
be turned into a positive learning experience for all of the
girls, including a wake-up call for Suzy.
Just my thoughts.
#Post#: 75936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: NFPwife Date: June 18, 2022, 7:13 am
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I'm so sorry the girls are experiencing this. They're not in
vacation, they're in the middle of a operant conditioning
behavioral intervention/ experiment. They're on the right track
with ignoring the attention seeking misbehavior, because Suzy is
escalating. Suzy is in what behaviorist call an extinction
burst. (Here's my favorite easy example of an extinction burst
HTML https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dGuQHNezwt4
when the reinforcer is
withheld a touch longer the cats escalate their bell ringing
behavior.)
Basically, when a behavior isn't being reinforced, it escalates
before extinguishing. The girls can't give in and reinforced
Suzy's screaming now. They're almost across the finish line with
this.
The girls could try two things - separate Suzy from her
behavior; e.g. when Suzy accuses them of not liking her - "Suzy
we like *you*, we don't like it when you talk mean, raise your
voice, demand things (whatever the specifics are)." Continue
walking away when she picks fights, they could make an assertive
statement as they go, "Suzy, I feel like you're picking a
fight," or "This is the thing I don't like," and leave.
Then, reinforce any little glimpse of Suzy doing the right thing
by noting it and spending time with her, "Suzy I enjoy
spending time with you when we're relaxed and (specific thing
they're doing.)"
Reinforcing any little approximation of good social interaction
will work.
The good news is the girls can learn a lot about how to be
assertive, not mean or snarky, when dealing with challenging
people and they have opportunity to assert themselves. They
could also learn about operant conditioning along the way :)
#Post#: 75937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: NFPwife Date: June 18, 2022, 7:36 am
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One more thought, the troop leaders outlined behavior
expectations but did they outlined what would happen if those
weren't met? "Repeated or serious violations of the behavior
expectations will result in a GS being asked to leave the trip
early and her family will be responsible for her safe return
home including accompanying expenses."
Next outing, the leaders should set up behavioral contracts not
a wish list of expectations. They knew Suzy wouldn't follow
those and her mother wouldn't keep her from the trip because her
mother isn't accurately assessing Suzy's struggles (or is a
compounding factor in making them worse. )
#Post#: 75938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keeping a negative child from ruining the trip
By: Jem Date: June 18, 2022, 8:28 am
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I think it is important for people to learn to set appropriate
boundaries. By walking away and not engaging it seems the rest
of the troop HAS set appropriate boundaries. I would hate for
them to “learn” that they don’t get to do that and instead have
to cater to a person who does respect them or their boundaries
(whether another girl or a boy or an adult).
I don’t think the rest of the troop should be forced to cater to
Suzy or to assure her that they like her. They don’t. They have
valid reasons why they don’t. This is a Suzy issue, and while
Suzy does appear to need “help” I think it should be
professional help. Other early teens are not equipped to address
Suzy’s mental health and behavioral issues. They should not even
be put in that position.
I agree with the poster who hopes there were some “teeth” along
with the behavior expectations. It sound to me like Suzy’s
parents should be summoned to fly and pick up Suzy.
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