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#Post#: 75580--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Aleko Date: May 21, 2022, 7:48 am
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Dear heavens, and I thought I had an intrusive, demanding MIL!
My heart fairly bleeds for D.
#Post#: 75581--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Aleko Date: May 21, 2022, 12:03 pm
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Seriously, though: if one's widowed mother is very elderly /
frail / isolated and lonely, calling and chatting to her daily
is very proper; though even then, calling more than once a day
is surely overdoing it unless it's a practical necessity, e.g.
if she's so forgetful she needs a nightly reminder to lock up
and put the cat out. But for a woman with loads of affectionate
friends with whom she frequently goes out to movies, concerts
and dinners to expect to talk over the phone at least daily to
her married child sounds unhealthily enmeshed, IMHO.
#Post#: 75582--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: chigger Date: May 21, 2022, 12:36 pm
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I don't see what the DIL is doing wrong. This isn't a once a
year visit, Hmm says "every few months". Life goes on, and there
are things that need to be done, regardless if your MIL is
visiting. If my relative was visiting that often, I wouldn't
cancel every activity and the things I need to accomplish. I DO
have a question, though. Is A being invited on those dates, or
does she just say she's coming? Because, that makes a huge
difference to me. Invited, I'm going to clear my schedule.
Announcing your arrival, I'm going about my life, especially if
you're coming 4 or more times a year.
#Post#: 75583--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Sara Crewe Date: May 21, 2022, 12:40 pm
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2352.msg75581#msg75581
date=1653152614]
Seriously, though: if one's widowed mother is very elderly /
frail / isolated and lonely, calling and chatting to her daily
is very proper; though even then, calling more than once a day
is surely overdoing it unless it's a practical necessity, e.g.
if she's so forgetful she needs a nightly reminder to lock up
and put the cat out. But for a woman with loads of affectionate
friends with whom she frequently goes out to movies, concerts
and dinners to expect to talk over the phone at least daily to
her married child sounds unhealthily enmeshed, IMHO.
[/quote]
I agree that level of contact *might* be normal in certain
circumstances. I didn’t mean to suggest A’s MIL definitely
didn’t appreciate it - there may have been very good reasons for
the constant contact. It’s just A is apparently very attached
to ‘the right way’ of MIL / DIL relationships. She is also
apparently completely unwilling to alter her behaviour just
because one of the parties in the current relationship seems to
disagree since her discussion with the OP seems to be about how
she doesn’t think D is DILing ‘right’. It makes me wonder if A
ever asked her MIL if she wanted constant calls and multiple
visits per week.
#Post#: 75594--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Aleko Date: May 22, 2022, 10:19 am
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[quote]This isn't a once a year visit, Hmm says "every few
months". Life goes on, and there are things that need to be
done, regardless if your MIL is visiting. If my relative was
visiting that often, I wouldn't cancel every activity and the
things I need to accomplish. I DO have a question, though. Is A
being invited on those dates, or does she just say she's coming?
Because, that makes a huge difference to me. Invited, I'm going
to clear my schedule. Announcing your arrival, I'm going about
my life, especially if you're coming 4 or more times a
year.[/quote]
I don't think these specific actions of D's are the true issue:
or at any rate that they are only symptoms of, or labels for,
the real issue. We know that A had a relationship with her own
MIL that most people would consider suffocatingly close, and has
a similarly suffocatingly-close relationship with her only
child. It appears that she demands an equal closeness and
constant contact from her DIL, and my guess is that her real
beef with D is that D doggedly refuses to provide it. But I
think we would all agree that D is totally not obligated to
provide this unless she genuinely wants to, and I certainly
don't think one can justifiably label a person an 'introvert'
(though of course D may be one) for not wanting to.
Maybe D genuinely needed to go off and do those errands then;
and maybe she invented them because there's only so much of
"sitting around chatting and visiting for hours" with a MIL
who's hell-bent on encroaching on her time and privacy that she
can stand without screaming. Either way, I don't think anyone
can possibly call it rude. OP did say that M and D had visited A
only a couple of weeks before (where A would have been able to
pin them down on the sofa chatting as long as she wanted); I
think that when you've visited someone that recently (so there
really is no question of "catching up with them"), and they will
be staying for two or three nights, you're under no obligation
to rearrange your day so as to spend several hours chatting with
them as soon as they turn up.
#Post#: 75596--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Winterlight Date: May 22, 2022, 12:46 pm
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If I had someone that extroverted visiting me that regularly I'd
want to go out for a few hours too. I think DIL is being very
patient with the situation.
#Post#: 75606--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Hmmm Date: May 23, 2022, 9:00 am
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[quote author=Soop link=topic=2352.msg75560#msg75560
date=1653046591]
What could there possibly left for D to talk to A about? What
with M calling A every day. Maybe she is also tired of that.
Having her MIL always knowing their business.
I cannot imagine calling my Mom or MIL every day. When Mr S does
call his Mom, she keeps it short and dashes off to Bridge or
Mahjong. Even when I was away at university, I only talked to my
parents every week or 2 weeks.
[/quote]
I agree with this but I don't think that is the issue. D's
parents are highly involved in their lives. She talks to her
mom, dad and sister daily. She visits with them a few times a
week. Nephew has frequently had to step in and tell his MIL to
butt out. D's mom was very upset a few years ago when A refused
to look at homes in the same neighborhood as D's parents.
#Post#: 75607--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Hmmm Date: May 23, 2022, 9:42 am
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[quote author=Sara Crewe link=topic=2352.msg75579#msg75579
date=1653132622]
If I had a husband who was so enmeshed with his mother that they
talked at least once if not more than once a day and the MIL
showed up to stay with us every couple of months, I’d be
contemplating divorce not just avoiding her for a couple of
hours every visit (well, I hopefully wouldn’t since the red
flags would have sent me screaming into the distance at an early
stage long before any discussion of marriage).
D has obviously decided what she needs to do to cope with her
DH’s smother mother - and this apparently doesn’t involve trying
to get her husband to not allow MIL to be a third party in their
marriage (or if it does, she has failed).
A has won - she’s getting her own way in her relationship with
M. The fact D’s surrender apparently isn’t abject enough for
her (how dare she not display joy at her MIL’s in depth
involvement in her marriage) is something A will have to live
with.
I also wonder if A’s MIL was happy with the daily calls and
multiple visits. If I had a younger relative who did that (no
DIL/SIL), I’d be dreading hearing the phone ring.
[/quote]
I can see where you'd get the impression of smother mother. But
that's not really the relationship. It's probably 50/50 on who
is initiating the contact. One weekend, A and I were on a trip
and I became annoyed how often M was calling to check in on us
or wanting to chat. I called my husband each night after dinner.
M on the other hand called about 9am checking to see that we got
off ok. Around mid day he texted to see if we'd made to to a
town we had discussed stopping for lunch. Around mid afternoon
he called because a co-worker had recommended a place for dinner
where we were staying that night. He texted again that night
asking his mom to call so he could hear about our plans for the
next day. It's not that he was worried but was just enjoying
hearing about on trip.
A is very careful to not offer any advice on child rearing or
their relationship. A has a career in finance. She'll offer
advice if asked by M but if he doesn't ask she doesn't offer.
D's mom on the other hand is a total smother mother. She is
involved in every decision they make. During this last visit,
D's parents were over one night for a dinner and she told me
that D's mom was trying to get A to also intervene in M & D's
plans to take the grandkids to Disney with just the 4 of them.
D's mom said it was selfish of them to not invite the
grandparents to go too. Per A, her response was if they wanted a
large family vacation, they would have invited them.
I like D's mom. But man, during the wedding planning, I got to
see first hand now controlling of a woman she is. My daughter
was a bridesmaid. D had texted all of her wedding party to begin
arranging a day to look at dresses. A few hours later, another
text comes out that D's mom wants just D, D's sister and D's mom
to go and select the dresses and they'd just let them know the
style and where to go order. D was almost 30 at the time. D's
sister told me at the wedding reception that she was going to
elope because she was not going to go through what D and M did
planning the wedding. She didn't elope, but she planned a very
small family only wedding and didn't tell her parents about it
until all the plans were made.
And when they began looking for day cares she insisted she would
go with them on every visit to "help" them choose the most
appropriate. And the most appropriate one in her eyes was the
one closest to her home.
#Post#: 75609--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Rose Red Date: May 23, 2022, 12:40 pm
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I'm sorry, but all these initials are confusing me. I need to
write it out.
OP (Hmmm)
A (OP's sister. The mom/MIL who stays with son and DIL)
M (A's Son)
D (M's Wife, A's DIL)
Now there's D's (DIL's) mom. I don't think D's Mom's control
issues need to be brought up. That's a separate thing from A
(mom/MIL's) feelings when she visits her Son/DIL.
I think A and her Son/DIL need to sit down and have a heart to
heart. Maybe everyone will be surprised at how they are seen
through each other's eyes. DIL may think doing chores just shows
she's comfortable with MIL. DIL may be surprised that MIL think
she's avoiding her.
#Post#: 75628--------------------------------------------------
Re: In Law Interactions
By: Aleko Date: May 24, 2022, 11:03 am
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[quote]I can see where you'd get the impression of smother
mother. But that's not really the relationship. It's probably
50/50 on who is initiating the contact. One weekend, A and I
were on a trip and I became annoyed how often M was calling to
check in on us or wanting to chat. I called my husband each
night after dinner. M on the other hand called about 9am
checking to see that we got off ok. Around mid day he texted to
see if we'd made to to a town we had discussed stopping for
lunch. Around mid afternoon he called because a co-worker had
recommended a place for dinner where we were staying that night.
He texted again that night asking his mom to call so he could
hear about our plans for the next day. It's not that he was
worried but was just enjoying hearing about on trip.[/quote]
Flaming Norah! His perfectly-competent mother and
perfectly-competent aunt set off on a trip together, and in the
course of one day he felt the need/urge to check up on them
twice, recommend them something once, and demanded his mother
called to tell him everything they planned to do next day?
There's just so much wrong about that behaviour. (He realises
that D's mother ought to butt out of his and D's lives, but
seemingly can't butt out of his own mother's life? ::) ::) ::)
Weird!)
I just can't imagine the awfulness of D's life: having to dance
attendance on her own parents with phone calls daily and visits
several times a week, and having them control all their plans
and domestic arrangements and as well as all that being blamed
by her MIL for not dancing attendance on her as much as MIL
feels she ought! I do think you might point out to A that not
only is "She only phones me when she actually has something to
say!" an inherently unreasonable complaint to make about anyone;
it's also downright cruel to demand that someone already
carrying such a crushing load of social-emotional donkeywork
should shoulder a whole lot more on one's account.
You might also suggest to A that it's quite possible her arrival
at M&D's house gave D a chance to park the kids with her and go
on her errands by herself for once, with no need to hurry back.
She might have done the shopping then sat in her car in the
supermarket car park for an hour, with a book or just with her
eyes closed, revelling in being alone and at nobody's beck and
call for once.
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