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#Post#: 74728--------------------------------------------------
Work & Funerals
By: DaDancingPsych Date: April 6, 2022, 4:42 pm
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Am I right that these weren't handled well or are my emotions
clouding things?
My aunt passed away earlier this week. She had been ill for some
time and her body just couldn't hold out anymore; I truly feel
it was her time. While I'm handling my daily responsibilities
just fine, I am grieving and was sad to hear the news. In order
to attend the funeral, I needed to take time off both of my jobs
and had to juggle a few work responsibilities.
Job 1: Boss was appropriately sympathetic and allowed for the
time without much fuss. However, there's an Admin (actually,
Boss's sister) who I assist on occasion. I needed to inform her
that I would not be available to help her tomorrow, so she
should send any needs today. I didn't really explain my
reasoning for the day off, but I know that it's possible that
Boss will share with her (which is fine.) However, I didn't feel
like answering her numerous questions about my aunt today; I
just wanted to get the work done so that I could flip focus to
my family. So I just left it as a day off. However, she has a
habit (and not just with me) with responding to unexplained time
off with "I hope that you have something fun planned." Even when
I do have something fun planned, this feels like she's prying
for details, but I suppose that she would say that she's just
being polite. Obviously, she runs the risk of saying this when
the plans are not fun (as they are not for me), so I have always
felt that this is not the right thing to say. What do you think?
Am I being overly emotional or am I right that she should try
different wording?
Job 2: Boss started as appropriately sympathetic and was
grateful that I had already made arrangements to cover my
assignments. But this led into her telling me that she enjoyed
the time off she had for a funeral for an old family friend.
That she appreciated the opportunity to step away from daily and
work stress. I don't feel this way. This all feels like extra
stress to me. And while I'm appreciative that work was removed
from my plate for the day, I'm using the time to focus on caring
for my family and not resting. Am I wrong that she blundered
this one and that maybe this wasn't the occasion for her to
explain how her family friend's funeral became self-care for
her?
I'll take any thoughts or discussion you care to have.
#Post#: 74730--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: NFPwife Date: April 6, 2022, 8:21 pm
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My condolences on the death of your aunt. I'm so sorry you're
going through this.
I have a habit of saying, "I hope you have something fun
planned," voice to voice or over email when someone tells me
they're taking PTO. It's a way for me to acknowledge that, way
too often, time off isn't used for something fun. (E.g. -My
recent PTO days were used to go to the DMV, sleep off the
malaise from my second booster, complete a huge grocery shop,
and some random life administrative things.) When I say it I
mean it to be validating and supportive. If the person wants to
tell me why they're taking off, they can, I'm not fishing, I'm
trying to say, "Adulting can be hard and relentless, I hope
you're getting a break from it."
Because I say that exact thing, I'll recuse myself from scenario
one.
Scenario 2- That's odd, but some people are relational in that
if you're going through something or have an experience similar
to one they had they'll connect by talking about it. Sometimes
when it seems like someone is one-upping me or adding something
about themselves, I ask myself if my situation sparked a memory
or analogous situation for them and they're just sharing and
trying to relate to me. I've had the experience where attending
a funeral had highlights because we got to connect with people
we hadn't seen in ages, but I wouldn't ever call it self-care.
In my culture, there's visiting after the visitation and, often,
a lively wake at the meal after the interment and memories are
shared and there's laughing with the tears. It's an integral
part of how we grieve, but, again, I wouldn't call it self-care.
I'm going to chalk it up to she was sharing in an awkward way
and it was the wrong time and place for that sharing.
#Post#: 74734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: Aleko Date: April 7, 2022, 2:07 am
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Re 1: I’m not a fan of saying “Hope it’s for
something fun!” to people asking for / announcing a
day’s leave. Of course its acceptability depends on
context - who’s saying it to who, their personalities and
the specific relationship they have. But some nosy people do say
it out of a desire to pry, and some reserved people will take it
as such even if it wasn’t. It’s also a real gaffe if
the day off is actually for something sad/scary/unpleasant.
Here’s this well-meaning person kindly wishing you a fun
day: to reply “No, actually it’s for my
mother’s funeral/a cancer biopsy/our divorce
hearing” and watching their face collapse feels unkind,
but to accept their wishes without letting on feels like a sort
of lie. It’s irrational, but there you go.
Re 2: I agree with PVZFan that this boss was just sharing her
experience out of sympathy. But as Miss Manners (the real
original Miss Manners) more than once pointed out, conventional
expressions of sympathy exist for a reason, which is that clumsy
attempts to say something personal and meaningful can actually
cause pain and offence, and sharing experience very often does
come across as self-inserting.
I don’t doubt that Boss meant to say that going to a
funeral and sharing the farewell with others who loved that
person can be a healing and sometimes surprisingly happy
occasion, and she hoped that might be so in this case: but it
just came out wrong. Though even if she had said it better,
personally I don’t think it’s a boss’s place
to proffer that kind of personal sympathy to a subordinate,
unless they’ve been through thick and thin together for
years. If she had stuck to saying “I’m so sorry for
your loss. Of course you can have the day off; thank you for
arranging cover for your assignments. If later you need more
time off to deal with your aunt’s affairs, don’t
hesitate to ask and I’ll see what I can do”,
I’m sure OP would have felt far more condoled with and
validated.
#Post#: 74738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: Hmmm Date: April 7, 2022, 8:26 am
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I'm sorry for you loss.
Just my perspective.... I'm not bothered by the "hope it is
something fun planned" response. I am sure they do hope you are
taking time off for something fun and not for a funeral, a root
canal or any other not fun activity. Sure, the response could be
just "thanks for letting me know". But the other response gives
an opening for others who may want to share the reason for the
time off without directly asking and seeming to pry. Some
co-workers might want to share "no unfortunately, we had a
family member we lost" or "well, I'm taking the time off to prep
for my dissertation". And if you don't want to share, all that
is required is a "Thanks" for which you are thanking them for
the positive thoughts or you can reply that you are needing to
spend time with your family.
With your boss for job 2, yes it was a bit of a blunder. But so
many people are uncomfortable discussing anything related to
death. I'm very forgiving of small blunders in these situations.
#Post#: 74739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: Jem Date: April 7, 2022, 8:53 am
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I am sorry for your loss and sorry that statements from others
contributed to your grief and discomfort.
I think in life any time anyone says nearly anything someone is
likely to be offended. I am not saying your feelings are not
valid, OP, just that it doesn't necessarily mean that the person
who said the things that offended you was in the wrong. I tend
to err on the side of grace - for everyone involved. Unless
there is some reason to believe that a person is truly trying to
hurt me, I assume that there was a miscommunication or clumsy
delivery.
The older I get and the more times I attempt to comfort someone
grieving the less I say, especially because certain things said
to me when I have been grieving did the opposite of comfort
(even though the person clearly meant well).
#Post#: 74743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: Isisnin Date: April 7, 2022, 10:51 am
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My condolences on your loss.
#1: She may or may not be prying when she says "Hope it's
something fun". Kinds depends on the delivery and the person
saying it which you know but we don't. But I do think that many
people say such things just as a social platitude. They feel
obligated by etiquette to say something supportive, even if they
don't know what's happening. And if they don't know what's
happening (and there is no reason they should), they could end
up saying something anti-supportive.
HR should train people that it's ok to "be supportive of"
people's time off by just saying ok. But if one really feels the
needs to say something more "Ok, thanks for the head's up" or
"Ok, thanks for making arrangements." are fine.
#2: I agree that she was just sharing to show empathy. But
still... saying that she enjoyed the bereavement time off as a
relief from work stress is weird. Saying "I found solace in
remembering my friend while remembering about her with family
and friends. I hope you find solace with your family and friends
too." is much better.
#Post#: 74760--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: honeybee42 Date: April 7, 2022, 6:33 pm
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First off, I am sorry for your loss.
On #2, I'd take it as a well-intentioned blunder. No two people
have the same grief experience (even two people in the same
family, like siblings losing a parent), but I'd go with just
letting it slide.
On #1, this is something that really lands poorly in way too
many cases. It's a bit different if you're voice-to-voice, as
there's tone to work from (which would hint that it was a happy
plan rather than a not-so-happy plan), but I'd say that that "I
hope it's for something fun" should be reserved for conversation
between actual friends at work (vs friendly acquaintance-level
co-workers--an actual friend is someone you'd happily spend time
together in non-work situations, the friendly acquaintance is
someone that you're friendly with in the normal context but
don't really want to expand to other contexts). In the event
that it's not a happy situation (as with the OP), sometimes,
that may take just one more "spoon" than you have available that
day, and the reaction is a angry/weepy one which just really
makes a mess of a work relationship.
#Post#: 74766--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: DaDancingPsych Date: April 8, 2022, 7:41 am
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Thank you all! I agree that handling the news of a death can be
quite awkward and that people typically want to say something
healing and helpful. (I am quite thankful for my Brimstone
lessons, as I am sure that I have said cringe-worthy things!)
And I like to think that I am typically a forgiving person and
overlook these sort of blunders (although you are convincing me
that they may not be), but I do appreciate the opportunity to
learn from them, too.
Thank you for the clarification that "I hope that you have fun
plans" is somewhat common. I will look at it as one of those
niceties that really don't require a response. Personally, I am
going to avoid using it as I am not a fan of the potential to be
used when the plans are far from fun and it still feels a little
intrusive. But I do agree that one should use it when they have
a decent feel for the situation.
And I agree that Boss 2 was likely trying to say something
helpful and healing. I would recommend that in the future that
she take the focus off celebrating time off and self-care. And
yes, funerals can be healing events; that's the whole reason
that we do it.
I appreciate the perspective. I think I just wasn't in the mood
to be thoughtful and forgiving, but I appreciate the
redirection.
#Post#: 75873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: bopper Date: June 13, 2022, 2:31 pm
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#1: "No actually it is for a funeral. I don't think that is the
best question to ask in general."
#2: "Gee, boss, if it takes a funeral for us to get some time
off maybe we need to look at vacation allocation or staffing
levels."
#Post#: 75881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Work & Funerals
By: DaDancingPsych Date: June 14, 2022, 8:07 am
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[quote author=bopper link=topic=2322.msg75873#msg75873
date=1655148718]
#2: "Gee, boss, if it takes a funeral for us to get some time
off maybe we need to look at vacation allocation or staffing
levels."
[/quote]
You nailed it! ;D It's not all of boss's fault (the industry
is set-up that time off is super tricky), but she has let the
ball drop concerning staffing. I was able to pick-up much of the
slack, but we are losing another staff member in a few months
and she doesn't seem to realize that this means we need someone
else. But that's all another issue!
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