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#Post#: 73198--------------------------------------------------
Get on with it! Updated
By: shadowfox79 Date: January 22, 2022, 4:02 am
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I have a reputation, at work and in general, for being very
concise. This generally has stood me in good stead at work,
although has been an issue at other times (I never hit the word
count in essays and job interviews are always quick). However,
now my team leader wants me to help a coworker be more concise,
and I'm stumped.
"Lucy" is a nice woman, but is completely incapable of saying
anything quickly. Whenever we're having a team brief and she
starts to speak you can sense everyone else thinking "Oh, for
crying out loud" as she rambles on for ages, usually leading our
meetings to run over. So our TL will ask if anyone has any
questions, and Lucy will say "Well, actually, can I just say
something? I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm stupid and I'm
probably getting confused, but I'd just like to say something.
So anyway, I was thinking... wait, I'll start at the
beginning..." and will then ramble for about ten minutes before
finishing with "Anyway, I'm rambling so I'll stop talking now."
By which point everyone has no idea what she was actually trying
to say because she's managed to obscure her point in all the
waffle.
The thing is, I'm not a TL and have very little experience in
that area - I'm one of the top performers in our department, but
I have no idea how to help someone to be concise. And I have the
distinct impression my TL doesn't know either and just wants
someone else to be the bad guy.
Any thoughts about a good way to do this, or alternatively a
good way to get out of it?
#Post#: 73199--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: AvidReader Date: January 22, 2022, 7:42 am
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When my husband does this or starts adding side excursions (or
off topic context) from what I think he's trying to get at, I
just say (interrupt, frankly), "Skipping ahead/Let's skip ahead
here."* It generally brings him around. While this works for
me, it wouldn't work in an employment setting.
Perhaps a gentle interruption along the lines of, "Co-worker,
please excuse the interruption, but with our limited (remaining)
time, what is your.....concern...question......(whatever magic
word might get her on track...I'd avoid the words 'problem' and
'issue') about topic A, B, or the change in procedure of C of
today's meeting....?" whatever gentle magic word might get her
on track.
Armchair psychologist here, she's probably spent a lifetime
being shot down every time she opens her mouth, so she tries to
hedge everything to limit blowback. What this means is someone,
you? the TL? develops the skill to be both a participant and an
active observer of the communication and jump in when the active
observer starts seeing things go off the rails.
*For example, he'll start talking about a challenge he and his
buddies had on a backpacking trip hiking up a mountain with an
irrelevant side excursion about the type and source of some
guy's camp food.
#Post#: 73200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: sandisadie Date: January 22, 2022, 9:53 am
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This is probably not helpful to your problem but my Mother spoke
that way. She would ramble so much and not get to the point
that people would just stop listening, or get lost in her
rambling and not understand what she was trying to say. I
remember asking her why she did this and she said that she had
to tell the story surrounding her main point so everyone would
understand. She never changed.
#Post#: 73202--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: holly firestorm Date: January 22, 2022, 11:32 am
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This is not your job. Sounds like your TL needs to find a
seminar in "Business Communication" that they can both go to.
TL, to learn how to communicate stuff like this without dumping
it on unqualified people and your coworker to learn how to
communicate in a more business like manner.
I would also like to point out that many women are "taught" to
speak this way because being too direct is viewed as "too
aggressive" for a woman who, until recently, were not encouraged
to learn too much business savvy, because that would look too
ambitious, also a quality not encouraged in women.
#Post#: 73203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: Aleko Date: January 22, 2022, 11:38 am
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[quote]This is not your job. Sounds like your TL needs to find a
seminar in "Business Communication" that they can both go to.
TL, to learn how to communicate stuff like this without dumping
it on unqualified people and your coworker to learn how to
communicate in a more business like manner.[/quote]
I agree. It's a fallacy to assume that people who are good at
something are necessarily good at teaching it to other people.
Often it's the opposite: people to whom a given skill or way of
doing things came easily, or who learned it so long ago they
can't remember not knowing it, can barely define what it exactly
is they do, let alone know how to begin imparting the skill to
others.
Edited to add: this kind of skill - learning how one comes
across to others, and how to improve this - is best done with
role play in groups, where fellow students can give feedback to
each other. I spent decades wondering why people were so rude
and dismissive to me when I made perfectly civil and reasonable
requests or complaints, till in an assertiveness course my
classmates told me that when I role-played ‘taking a
defective item back for a refund’, nervousness caused my
throat to tense up and my voice changed to a thin, carping,
nasty whine. Once they told me, I could actually feel it
happening, and learned a breathing exercise to loosen my throat
up. Now I don’t antagonise people I’m complaining to
as soon as I open my mouth!
#Post#: 73204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: Winterlight Date: January 22, 2022, 12:41 pm
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Or they may be good at teaching at a certain level. My dad tried
to teach my brother calculus, and it was a painful experience
despite the fact that dad is a professor. He was used to
advanced students who "got" it, and bro was not advanced and
didn't enjoy math at all, so their skill levels were crosswise.
I did somewhat better when dad taught me geometry, but I had a
bit more feel for the subject. And don't get me started on him
teaching us to drive! ;D
Shadowfox, it sounds like you might be someone who could maybe
help Lucy refine her skills, but not teach it from scratch, and
that's fine. TL needs to find someone who can work with her on
this at her level or she needs to look for her own teacher.
[quote author=holly firestorm link=topic=2264.msg73202#msg73202
date=1642872766]
This is not your job. Sounds like your TL needs to find a
seminar in "Business Communication" that they can both go to.
TL, to learn how to communicate stuff like this without dumping
it on unqualified people and your coworker to learn how to
communicate in a more business like manner.
I would also like to point out that many women are "taught" to
speak this way because being too direct is viewed as "too
aggressive" for a woman who, until recently, were not encouraged
to learn too much business savvy, because that would look too
ambitious, also a quality not encouraged in women.
[/quote]
Also a possibility, though again, not something Shadowfox can
fix, or should be expected to try fixing.
#Post#: 73205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: oogyda Date: January 22, 2022, 1:40 pm
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I agree that this shouldn't be dumped on you to teach "Lucy".
It would be on a supervisor (TL?) to address. The only role you
should have is as an example to her. The TL should address the
problem, state why it's a problem and what she can do to fix it.
"Pay attention to what shadowfox does and learn from that."
should be a directive by someone other than you.
#Post#: 73210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: holly firestorm Date: January 22, 2022, 4:31 pm
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[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=2264.msg73204#msg73204
date=1642876863]
Or they may be good at teaching at a certain level. My dad tried
to teach my brother calculus, and it was a painful experience
despite the fact that dad is a professor. He was used to
advanced students who "got" it, and bro was not advanced and
didn't enjoy math at all, so their skill levels were crosswise.
I did somewhat better when dad taught me geometry, but I had a
bit more feel for the subject. And don't get me started on him
teaching us to drive! ;D
Shadowfox, it sounds like you might be someone who could maybe
help Lucy refine her skills, but not teach it from scratch, and
that's fine. TL needs to find someone who can work with her on
this at her level or she needs to look for her own teacher.
[quote author=holly firestorm link=topic=2264.msg73202#msg73202
date=1642872766]
This is not your job. Sounds like your TL needs to find a
seminar in "Business Communication" that they can both go to.
TL, to learn how to communicate stuff like this without dumping
it on unqualified people and your coworker to learn how to
communicate in a more business like manner.
I would also like to point out that many women are "taught" to
speak this way because being too direct is viewed as "too
aggressive" for a woman who, until recently, were not encouraged
to learn too much business savvy, because that would look too
ambitious, also a quality not encouraged in women.
[/quote]
Also a possibility, though again, not something Shadowfox can
fix, or should be expected to try fixing.
[/quote]
When I worked for the school district they had a whole selection
of seminars and classes to learn a whole variety of skills.
Everything from learning the latest computer programs to
customer service to Diversity seminars. They were published on a
quarterly basis. If Shadowfox's organization is like that she
could look that up and present it to TL with the suggestion that
Lucy (at least) might benefit from this class.
#Post#: 73213--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: NFPwife Date: January 22, 2022, 7:28 pm
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Teaching Lucy and coaching her through this is not your role.
There's potential for resentment from Lucy or other co-workers
towards you and there's the risk of scope creep. This is the
responsibility of her direct supervisor to coach her through. If
the supervisor doesn't feel up to the task, they can contract
out for some professional development for Lucy. Or require her
to seek the professional development. (Have them contact me,
I've solved this a couple times. :) )
#Post#: 73217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get on with it!
By: shadowfox79 Date: January 23, 2022, 2:54 am
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Thanks, everyone.
I think part of the problem is that I was recently voluntold to
be a team coach, although only for queries related to the
programmes we use at work. I can live with training new starters
on our workstreams and answering work-related questions for
coworkers, but I think something like this is a bit beyond me.
We do have a good staff development programme so I'll have a
look in case there's something suitable for her there. I'm not
hopeful that it would help, to be honest. Usually when people
try to hurry Lucy along she just gets flustered and takes even
longer.
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