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#Post#: 72551--------------------------------------------------
The More the Merrier?
By: Jem Date: December 22, 2021, 9:18 am
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This is more of a general "how do other people view this" post
as opposed to an actual question of how I should handle it.
Situation One: My father in law is immuno-compromised due to
general poor health. He just got out of the hospital yet again.
He has been very careful in connection with COVID. He and his
wife invited his immediate family (meaning his children/spouses
including my husband/me and grandchildren) for Christmas Day. My
sister in law responded to the group text asking for a head
count that she and her husband would be attending along with her
husband's adult daughter. This was all fine with my father in
law. But then my SIL said that she had invited an adult neighbor
who would be alone for Christmas because his wife was visiting
her parents in a neighboring state and his brother was in the
ICU with COVID. My FIL was livid and said that if she brought
the neighbor my FIL would have to not participate because he is
immuno-compromised, does not know this neighbor, and wanted
Christmas to be about family and not getting to know someone he
will likely never see again. I think it was very rude for my SIL
to simply announce that she had invited someone to Christmas,
especially in the age of COVID. I imagine my SIL thinks my FIL
is rude for saying that she can't bring him. How do you view
this?
Situation Two: A number of years ago I invited my mother,
sister, and three nieces to bake Christmas cookies. I purchased
the ingredients and made a plan for which cookies should be made
first to maximize prep times, oven times, etc. My daughter and I
were really excited for some family time! But then my sister
showed up with her three daughters and a random neighborhood
girl. I was livid. She did not ask, she just showed up with this
girl and then insisted on making the experience focused on her.
This girl is from an affluent family (so it wasn't a situation
of helping out the needy or something) and perfectly nice, but
she was not invited and her presence completely changed the day
for the worse. Also, my sister insisted that this girl get an
equal share of the cookies. My daughter and I were very
disappointed that the family day simply wasn't and my daughter
felt excluded in her own home because the four other girls were
palling around. I think my sister was very rude for bringing an
uninvited person to my house without asking. Had she asked, I
would have said not to bring her. My sister has a history of
doing this with her dog also. I am allergic to most dogs and
have made it clear that her dog is NOT welcome in my home. I
think my sister is very rude. I imagine she thinks I am. How do
you guys view this?
#Post#: 72554--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: Aleko Date: December 22, 2021, 9:37 am
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Re situation #1: do you know whether SIL invited the neighbour
after receiving FIL's invitation, or whether she had already
done so? Because if she had already invited him to have
Christmas dinner with her family,, of course she couldn't
decently un-invite him. If FIL's invitation was along the lines
of ' I'd like your family to come over for Christmas Day! How
many of you are there?', it seems reasonable for her to list
everyone who would otherwise be having Christmas dinner at her
home. And if he told her 'I don't care that you had invited
this guy, you can't bring him', then yes actually he was rude.
It's fair enough to say 'well, that's a deal-breaker for me; you
and Jack and your guest had better stay home', but to tell her
to disinvite him, no.
#Post#: 72556--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: Jem Date: December 22, 2021, 9:48 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2239.msg72554#msg72554
date=1640187476]
Re situation #1: do you know whether SIL invited the neighbour
after receiving FIL's invitation, or whether she had already
done so? Because if she had already invited him to have
Christmas dinner with her family,, of course she couldn't
decently un-invite him. If FIL's invitation was along the lines
of ' I'd like your family to come over for Christmas Day! How
many of you are there?', it seems reasonable for her to list
everyone who would otherwise be having Christmas dinner at her
home. And if he told her 'I don't care that you had invited
this guy, you can't bring him', then yes actually he was rude.
It's fair enough to say 'well, that's a deal-breaker for me; you
and Jack and your guest had better stay home', but to tell her
to disinvite him, no.
[/quote]
The neighbor was never invited by my FIL. It is standard for my
FIL and MIL to have "family" over on Christmas Day. The group
text was along the lines of "Please come any time after 12:00
and we will plan to eat at 1:30. Please let me know who will be
coming so we have a head count." Every family member was on the
text and my FIL was clear that this is a family only event. The
head count was so that FIL/MIL knew whether my daughter would be
there, and which of my husband's three adult kids and/or their
SOs (who are considered family). A random neighbor would not be
considered family.
My SIL to my knowledge has never done Christmas Day with just
her family (which would be her husband and her, and sometimes
her stepdaughter). Also, the neighbor is not family. My SIL
invited the neighbor to my FIL's home without asking my FIL. For
me, my FIL saying "I don't care that you invited this guy, you
can't bring him" is not rude. To me, my SIL inviting a stranger
(who had arguably been exposed to COVID) to my FIL's home was
very rude.
#Post#: 72557--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: NFPwife Date: December 22, 2021, 9:53 am
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I generally hate the more the merrier, because, as in your
second example, more is not always merrier.
Your FIL had a perfect response in the first scenario. He'd be
right about a random neighbor changing the dynamic in typical
times, but in the time of covid? The risk is too high to include
a stranger right now. Besides that, people haven't been able to
connect and gather so it's completely reasonable to want just
family time and have that prioritized more than usual. Finally,
based on SIL even asking to bring a stranger, I'd be questioning
how she's assessing risk in general and I'd just disinvite her
whole branch because of that.
For the second, I'd love to say, "Oh, I would have told sister
that we'd reschedule since she brought an extra person and this
was meant to be mom/ daughter/ cousin time," but I would have
done exactly what you did and tried to go with the flow. Your
sister was rude, she ruined the day, and the best you can hope
for future time together is to try to get in front of it with,
"Now today is about, blah, blah, blah, no extras. More is not
merrier for this event."
My husband has a friend who does this all. the. time. DH and I
make the best of it and, occasionally, more is merrier, but it
changes the event. My husband has bowed out of things where he
knows extra people were invited. For instance, we were planning
dinner as two couples and another couple was invited, my DH
said, "I don't want to crash your evening with that couple,
enjoy yourself, we'll catch you another time." That slowed the
tendency a touch.
*edit - typo, tenses
#Post#: 72558--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: NFPwife Date: December 22, 2021, 10:12 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2239.msg72554#msg72554
date=1640187476]
Re situation #1: do you know whether SIL invited the neighbour
after receiving FIL's invitation, or whether she had already
done so? Because if she had already invited him to have
Christmas dinner with her family,, of course she couldn't
decently un-invite him. If FIL's invitation was along the lines
of ' I'd like your family to come over for Christmas Day! How
many of you are there?', it seems reasonable for her to list
everyone who would otherwise be having Christmas dinner at her
home. And if he told her 'I don't care that you had invited
this guy, you can't bring him', then yes actually he was rude.
It's fair enough to say 'well, that's a deal-breaker for me; you
and Jack and your guest had better stay home', but to tell her
to disinvite him, no.
[/quote]
In the scenario that SIL had already invited Jack to her home,
the only appropriate response on the group text is "We invited
(guest) to spend Christmas with us, is it okay if he comes
with?" That's an ask before telling situation anytime, but
especially during (yet another!) covid wave.
#Post#: 72561--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: VorFemme Date: December 22, 2021, 11:15 am
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This is a situation where FIL's medical condition card trumps
Sister-in-Law's right to bring anyone outside the family to the
event. They can come over early for a while, then go home to
have dinner with their neighbor (and I hope that they haven't
socialized with him in the previous few days - potentially
exposing themselves to an increased risk of any seasonal
illnesses before seeing someone who is KNOWN to be
immune-compormised).
Having read of SIL's known tendency to bring neighbors, dogs,
and whatever else along with her on "family visits" - perhaps
arrangements need to be made with her husband or anyone else
known to be able to influence her tendency to accumulate
"extras" in her party....? But I fear that she is one of those
people who cannot see that SHE might be the one who needs to
control her preference for larger gatherings to match the needs
of other people who are immune compromised or allergic to the
pet she's bringing along. She will never see it as a problem -
it will be, at best, a vague recognition on her part of "they're
just so fussy about it that it's not going to work out to bring
Fluffy or the neighbor" along.
#Post#: 72562--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: STiG Date: December 22, 2021, 11:27 am
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I grew up in a house where there were often extra people for
holiday meals. We often celebrated with another family; their
daughter was in university and invited a friend, who was an
exchange student, to come home with her so she wouldn't be alone
in the dorms. She let my Mom know the day before the meal but
knew that my Mom wouldn't have minded an extra person.
Especially since this student was from the same country as Mom's
father.
I have done the same when hosting holiday meals. However, this
was pre-Covid.
Right now, I would not allow someone I didn't know into my home
for a holiday meal. Full Stop. FIL wasn't rude, IMO, but even
if he was? Safety trumps etiquette. SIL was rude to FIL
because she didn't ask to bring an extra guest. She may have
been rude to neighbour if the original invite was to FIL's house
and not her own because she didn't have the authority to invite
him to an event she was not hosting. If the invite to the
neighbour predated the invite to FIL's, the correct thing for
SIL to do would have been to ask FIL if she could bring the
neighbour and let FIL know that they wouldn't be attending so
they could host neighbour in their own home.
As for the second situation, that was just wrong on so many
levels. But you couldn't turn them away without upsetting the
kid(s) and your sister knew that. Going forward, any invite I
issued to her would explicitly spell out who was invited and any
additional persons were not welcome. You'd probably have to
actual turn her away once for her to understand that you were
serious.
#Post#: 72566--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: Hmmm Date: December 22, 2021, 1:14 pm
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I am of the camp that you should never invite someone to an
event unless you are the one hosting it in your home. We have a
well established precedent that random people will be invited to
family events. However, even though we never said no, my family
still asks me if it is ok.
I think if your FIL should have said "Sorry, we aren't open to
having additional people this year. Let us know if you want to
come by after you host your neighbor at your house."
#Post#: 72571--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: Jem Date: December 22, 2021, 1:48 pm
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[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2239.msg72566#msg72566
date=1640200498]
I am of the camp that you should never invite someone to an
event unless you are the one hosting it in your home. We have a
well established precedent that random people will be invited to
family events. However, even though we never said no, my family
still asks me if it is ok.
I think if your FIL should have said "Sorry, we aren't open to
having additional people this year. Let us know if you want to
come by after you host your neighbor at your house."
[/quote]
Agreed. To be clear though, SIL doesn't host people at her
house. She never intended (and still does not) intend to host
the neighbor at her house. She fully invited the neighbor to my
FIL's (her father) house without asking. Frankly, I am very
relieved that she mentioned the invitation on the group text as
opposed to simply showing up with a random stranger with recent
possible COVID exposure (from my FIL's perspective)!
#Post#: 72572--------------------------------------------------
Re: The More the Merrier?
By: Hmmm Date: December 22, 2021, 1:54 pm
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[quote author=Jem link=topic=2239.msg72571#msg72571
date=1640202485]
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2239.msg72566#msg72566
date=1640200498]
I am of the camp that you should never invite someone to an
event unless you are the one hosting it in your home. We have a
well established precedent that random people will be invited to
family events. However, even though we never said no, my family
still asks me if it is ok.
I think if your FIL should have said "Sorry, we aren't open to
having additional people this year. Let us know if you want to
come by after you host your neighbor at your house."
[/quote]
Agreed. To be clear though, SIL doesn't host people at her
house. She never intended (and still does not) intend to host
the neighbor at her house. She fully invited the neighbor to my
FIL's (her father) house without asking. Frankly, I am very
relieved that she mentioned the invitation on the group text as
opposed to simply showing up with a random stranger with recent
possible COVID exposure (from my FIL's perspective)!
[/quote]
Oh, I understood that she never intended to host the neighbor in
her own home. But FIL doesn't have to let on that he knows that
too.
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