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#Post#: 67961--------------------------------------------------
Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: peony Date: July 7, 2021, 6:17 am
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I was reading a letter in Dear Prudence's July 6 column today:
My Husband is Threatening Divorce Because He Can't Take My Dad's
Bullying Any More. While it's true the husband stepped over a
line and was much more than rude to the dad, Prudence was
entirely on the father's and daughter's side and utterly
dismissed the fact that the husband had been needled and
tormented for years by the father's bad conduct without any
support from his wife. Prudence's obliviousness to the reasons
for the husband's explosion really bothers me, and I was
wondering what you all think.
#Post#: 67964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: lowspark Date: July 7, 2021, 8:47 am
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Here's a link to the story.
HTML https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/dad-bullied-husband-threatening-divorce-dear-prudence-advice.html
I have to wonder how accurate the LW is when she says, "my
husband—whom I had never previously seen angry".
Really? He's never even been angry before and then he goes WAY
off the deep end like this?
In any case, it looks like the husband bottled up his anger and
emotions and when the cork finally blew off, it released all the
pent up feelings in one explosion. Not good.
Everyone in this story needs counselling. Dad needs to come to
terms with the fact that he needs to back off teasing people who
don't want to be teased, plus the fact that he has been so
relentlessly targeting the husband. Husband needs counselling to
learn how to deal with adversity instead of holding it in till
he explodes. Wife needs counselling to deal with both dad's and
husband's behaviors in addition to her own.
Only then can there be hope of reconciliation between husband
and wife, which should be the first thing to be repaired, if
that's even desired or possible. I would say that there's almost
no hope of reconciliation between dad and husband. They just
need to stay miles apart.
#Post#: 67965--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: Isisnin Date: July 7, 2021, 9:23 am
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Totally agree with Lowspark. Everyone needs counseling.
Agree with you too, Peony. Prudence is oblivious to the reason
for husband's explosion - the father's bullying. That is a tacit
acceptance of the bullying. And for the husband to apologize and
not the father, that would also be tacit acceptance of the
father's bullying. And I agree with the husband that should be
bullying continue, the kids should not be around the father as
they could learn that behavior.
On the other hand, the husband's physical, life-threatening
explosion is not acceptable either. I hope the kids weren't
there to witness it. That is not something the kids should learn
either.
Unfortunately, some people are like the father. They have
abusive behaviors and are asked to stop. But they don't until
the victim does something more than say "please stop". I've had
to do that. I've put my hand out in a stop motion and said in a
strong voice "Stop that. I've asked you repeatedly to stop.
Stop.". Then I'm told I need to control my temper and I'm too
sensitive. But the bullying stops. You don't have to get
physical or life-threatening for standing your ground to work.
That family seems to have a lot of issues though. The wife said
she told her father that her husband doesn't like him - so she
fanned the flames. Then she warned the father to stop. She
didn't ask him or tell him to stop. She warned him. That
indicates that she thought the husband would loose his temper.
If she can't get her family into therapy, she should go herself.
#Post#: 67966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: Hmmm Date: July 7, 2021, 9:36 am
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I agree with Lowspark.
I think the wife needs to start the rounds of apologies. I know
I would feel a tremendous amount of responsibility if I had let
something go on so long that it drove my husband to violence
(that is if she is honest about this being first time she has
seen him angry). That apology to him may help reduce his anger
enough to make him agree to apologizing for the violence.
Then the father needs to offer a very sincere apology for his
actions and his responsibility for the blow up. If the father
refuses to accept that it was his actions that drove an
otherwise reasonable and contained man to violence, then I would
reduce contact with him and support the husband's decision to
stay away from him.
But counseling for all.
#Post#: 67968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: BeagleMommy Date: July 7, 2021, 10:12 am
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I agree that everyone in this scenario needs counseling -
including the LW.
She should have stepped in way before the husband's explosion
and said something like "Dad, if you don't stop bullying my
husband I will have to stop having you over/coming over". Her
father; her problem. She also shouldn't phrase it as if her
husband is the sole person with the problem (i.e. Husband
doesn't like it when you tease him).
She seems to have the attitude of "this is how Dad is". Not
good.
#Post#: 67970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: OnyxBird Date: July 7, 2021, 10:22 am
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Personally, I have very little confidence in the LW's
description accuracy, so I find it amazing that the columnist
immediately takes it as gospel. She's never even "seen [him]
angry" in "many years," yet has somehow known for years that her
father's bullying was upsetting him, with no explanation of what
she did observe? But made zero effort to protect the husband
from the pranks and teasing other than repeatedly warning the
father after he repeatedly ignored that? And then he goes from
no signs of anger that the LW recognizes as such to not just
violence and "roaring" death threats but "put[ting] a fist
straight through the brick work"? Not drywall, not just a
vaguely described wall, but "brick work." What kind of brick
work do these people have that someone can put a fist through it
without breaking their hand?
I have no idea what actually happened between the father and
husband, but the LW sounds like either the least observant
person on the planet, a severely unreliable narrator, or somehow
married to a Vulcan with superstrength/super-invulnerability who
finally snapped.
#Post#: 67971--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: Aleko Date: July 7, 2021, 10:52 am
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It's quite likely that when LW said she had never previously
seen her husband angry, she actually meant she had never before
seen him show anger, or react angrily when something riled him.
She makes clear that she knew perfectly well how much her father
riled him, so I don't think she was being dishonest, just not
conveying her meaning very accurately.
#Post#: 67972--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: OnyxBird Date: July 7, 2021, 11:48 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2100.msg67971#msg67971
date=1625673157]
It's quite likely that when LW said she had never previously
seen her husband angry, she actually meant she had never before
seen him show anger, or react angrily when something riled him.
She makes clear that she knew perfectly well how much her father
riled him, so I don't think she was being dishonest, just not
conveying her meaning very accurately.
[/quote]
She may not be deliberately dishonest, but "unreliable narrator"
doesn't require deliberate dishonesty. If she knew it was
bothering him for years, then he must have been conveying those
emotions in some form, even if that is flat-out saying "I am
angry/upset/sad" (even just saying "I don't like your father" if
that's how she reached her conclusion communicates that there is
some negative emotion happening).
Here's the thing: Her story is that he doesn't show anger (but
in some undescribed way showed that he was unhappy with her
father's behavior) for many years and then suddenly goes to
violence and death threats with zero warning. It's technically
possible but extremely weird. So my question is what counts as
"showing anger" to her? Does this family (where bullying a
family member known to dislike it for "many years" is
normalized) actually recognize/acknowledge any expression of
anger short of screaming? Nothing in her explanation indicates
how he has reacted previously or how this family overall
handles/interprets normal expressions of emotion before
describing this incredibly over-the-top reaction. Has he really
shown no anger before now, or has he for years been using
socially appropriate expressions of anger that have been ignored
because they don't rise to an unignorable level? (Not that that
excuses violence/death threats, but like I said, her account
doesn't add up to me in multiple ways, so I'm not convinced that
was an objective description.)
Again, I can't see how the description of the
explosion--specifically putting a fist through "brick work"--is
plausible without serious damage to the hand (which is not
alluded to in any way), which suggests to me that she is
(consciously or not) either using hyperbole or misunderstanding
elements of what she saw.
ETA: I have personally dealt with people where I could find
basically no middle ground of conveying a problem between "they
don't register it as a complaint" and "they act like you're
overreacting and saying the sky is falling." That threshold was
well below violence and threats, but I highly doubt they could
have accurately described what I actually said in either
case--in one circumstance they would have claimed (and I think
genuinely believed) that I'd never expressed any
dissatisfaction, and in the other they thought I was being
overly negative to the point of accusing a colleague of
basically indoctrinating me with complaints about the
organization, when what happened from my perspective is that I
mildly increased the strength of my wording and let some more
frustration bleed into my tone.
#Post#: 67973--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: sandisadie Date: July 7, 2021, 12:00 pm
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Isn't it possible that this LW, who grew up with this bully of a
father, hasn't recognized her husband's anger and disgust as
pertains to her father because she is also a bully, in her own
way? Her story doesn't add up to me. How could her husband
have put up with her father for years and she is just now seeing
how it affects him? Facts seem to be missing from this story.
#Post#: 67978--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dear Prudence July 6 letter
By: peony Date: July 7, 2021, 3:52 pm
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I'm thinking that LW has lived in that type of environment for
so many years she sees the situation as normal and brushes off
her husband's pent-up irritation as just the way things are in
families. I am not defending the husband's reaction but I see it
as the outcome of years of putting up with insults and
"teasing." I agree, everybody involved could use counseling.
Edited to add that I would have posted the link, but I wasn't
sure it was allowed.
Also edited to add that LW's seeming oblivious to the extent of
her husband's anger reminds me of someone whose significant
other has left them, claiming "it came out of the blue! There
was no warning! They never let me know anything was wrong!" I
would bet yeah, they did, probably lots of times, and when they
weren't heard they just gave up trying to communicate.
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