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#Post#: 67730--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: Lkdrymom Date: June 28, 2021, 3:32 pm
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[quote author=Xainte link=topic=2089.msg67710#msg67710
date=1624837953]
[quote author=Lkdrymom link=topic=2089.msg67708#msg67708
date=1624831727]
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=2089.msg67677#msg67677
date=1624654067]
I think in future I would not make any plans with Sally in mind.
You can extend an invitation, but I wouldn't go out of my way
for her, and I wouldn't plan anything that her cancelling will
affect. So, if you want to go on a day hike at the state park
near your house and Sally bailing won't matter, then it's fine
to invite her. The invite list for Special Hike That Takes
Serious Driving? I'd probably leave her off.
[/quote]
Doing this would not work because she will still think
cancelling is acceptable. Maybe if she is left off the list of a
few fun invites she might see the light. I had a friend that
flaked on me so many times I gave up the count. It did not
matter if I invited her so she extended the invite. Hours before
she would cancel or just not show up. The final straw was when
she inconvenienced one of my family members. I was done and
refused any future invites from her. A few months ago I was
making plans to attend an event with someone on Facebook when
flakey friend saw and asked to come along. Other person agreed.
I told the other person to not be surprised if flakey did not
show up. Flakey then asked if we could drive together. I
resolved that I was leaving at a certain time whether she was
here or not. To my pleasant surprise, she showed. She then
asked me out to dinner a few weeks later and not only showed but
paid. She is a recent widow so I wonder if this has anything to
do with it. She was flakey prior to her marriage. I am planning
on asking her to dinner next month so we will see if she has
really changed.
[/quote]
Just curious - when you refused the invites after being shafted
over and over did you tell her why? Or did she ask?
It's tough because it seems it has to happen multiple times
before people start getting mad Or have someone deal an
outrageous cop out like the OP had.
And flaking can happen in different ways. It can be changing
times, indecisiveness, not firming up plans etc.
[/quote]
In all honesty, the two or three times she texted me to do
something I ignored it. It did not seem to bother her and I
think that is where we differ. Some people never consider plans
as concrete until they actually show up. It doesn't bother them
if someone bails at the last minute either because that is how
they are. Canceling plans for no good reason is just fine with
them. Then there are people like me who's word means something.
If I say I am goign to do something, nothing short of a trip to
the hospital will get me to go back on my word.
#Post#: 67750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: VorFemme Date: June 29, 2021, 11:02 am
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My husband and son (and a few other relatives) are pretty much
introverts. They like plans - firm schedule, events with rules
(card games, ball games, etc.), and minimal deviation from those
plans. There are a couple of other relatives who are extroverts
with a total lack of understanding on sticking to plans. They
seem to thrive on chaos and sometimes appear to be causing chaos
because plans are boring. For some reason, the chaos lovers
keep inviting us to visit and can't understand why their
invitations don't get added to our list of planned activities (I
am in the middle, leaning to extrovert, but I do like planned
activities - for reasons of my own as well as the comfort of my
husband and son).
I haven't told her that the one time they came to see us and all
the plans were ignored (well, Christmas dinner wasn't ignored -
but much of the rest of the plans were) and the one time we
stayed with them, the constant adjusting of plans as she talked
to one family, then the next and the resulting whirl of chaos
had my husband so stressed out that it made the visit more
stressful than it needed to be on him...he was there to support
me, as we were staying with them while visiting very ill family
member. I was having to run interference with the chaos and it
drained me much faster.
You can like and even love some family & friends while finding
them too draining to be around much.
#Post#: 67752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: DaDancingPsych Date: June 29, 2021, 12:55 pm
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I don't want to question your family dynamics, VorFemme. You
know these people better than any of us and I trust that your
descriptions are accurate. However, I do not think that being
extrovert will always equal loose plans (or even chaos) and
introvert will always mean firm plans. I'm an extrovert, but I
always prefer very detailed, firm plans. It doesn't matter the
level of socializing (mingling cocktail party, reading quietly
in our own corners, or something in between), I want the plans
to be made and I want everyone to understand that they have made
a commitment. My extroversion does not make me a flake, it just
means that I am comfortable and even enjoy being around all
kinds of people in varying situations. I still get upset and
disappointed when people flake.
#Post#: 67753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: sms Date: June 29, 2021, 1:54 pm
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Lots of people are probably OK with looser plans to a point.
I'm fine with stuff like "let's go for a walk downtown and find
a place for lunch" or "Let's get together Saturday afternoon and
see what we feel like doing!"
But I don't want plans I've made time and arrangements for
bailed on without a damn good reason. If we've made
reservations at a Thai restaurant I don't want it changed to
Mexican on a whim.
If we've agreed on timings and I've arranged my schedule around
it I don't want the timings changed willy nilly.
I said it before but just because flaking out might free up
someone's time doesn't mean it's consequence free. And it's not
just logistics - it's the glaring lack of consideration and
respect.
Sometimes we go along with it because we don't want to rock the
boat or be accused of being rigid and not fun. And then we're
doing the classic "teaching people how to treat us."
#Post#: 67848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: VorFemme Date: July 2, 2021, 11:05 am
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[quote author=DaDancingPsych link=topic=2089.msg67752#msg67752
date=1624989325]
I don't want to question your family dynamics, VorFemme. You
know these people better than any of us and I trust that your
descriptions are accurate. However, I do not think that being
extrovert will always equal loose plans (or even chaos) and
introvert will always mean firm plans. I'm an extrovert, but I
always prefer very detailed, firm plans. It doesn't matter the
level of socializing (mingling cocktail party, reading quietly
in our own corners, or something in between), I want the plans
to be made and I want everyone to understand that they have made
a commitment. My extroversion does not make me a flake, it just
means that I am comfortable and even enjoy being around all
kinds of people in varying situations. I still get upset and
disappointed when people flake.
[/quote]
I have run into flakey introverts and flakey extroverts - she's
a combination of extrovert, disorganized, and her level of
disorganization contributes to the flakey & chaotic goings on.
Being a fairly extreme extrovert means that she wants everyone
else to join her in HER fun, even if they've started doing
something else...like a game of cards, watching a movie, or even
going to bed before midnight because there are plans for the
next morning that involve getting up, eating breakfast, and
going somewhere. The night before checkout from a resort, they
went out for lunch, stayed out for a movie, & dinner (on their
night to cook) and came in late enough that I *knew* getting out
by 10 am was going to be an issue. It was. We were more or
less chasing them out the door at ten til while she was
complaining that we *should* have arranged a late checkout (not
on Christmas EVE!) as we should have known that they'd need more
time...but we'd checked earlier and there was no way that we
were going to pay the fees for a late checkout and the resort
was not allowing "late checkout" due to the need to have every
room set up for people to check in later that day - they were
fully booked.
My fault on not spelling out that she is more or less a lawful
chaotic extrovert - not JUST extrovert. My husband finds it
exhausting to be around her....I find it amusing, but I also
have a medical condition that *I* monitor how much energy I have
left and slow down when I'm reaching a point where I won't be
able to recover if I keep going.... She hasn't got anything
going on to make her more cautious, yet. May she stay healthy
another thirty years! My brother loves her and I hope that they
get to retire before 70.
I have NO plans to move near them, though...
#Post#: 67905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: SnappyLT Date: July 4, 2021, 9:45 pm
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[quote author=Despedina link=topic=2089.msg67610#msg67610
date=1624398220]
{...snip...}
I was later thinking of all the times Sally complains that her
sisters don't invite her to things. I was wondering if this is
something she does to everyone, and her sisters have stopped
inviting her places.
It just seems she's pretty non-chalant and doesn't understand
that its important to someone that she show up. On the one
kayaking trip we did last Aug, which she planned, we showed up
to her campsite to get her about 20 minutes before we were
supposed to meet the shuttle. She had just crawled out of bed
and was in pjs and didn't have anything ready to go for a
day-long trip. She just kept messing around and saying she
wanted to chill out a bit before going. Finally Wanda, my sister
and I all got in the car and told her we really wanted to be on
time and we hoped to see her at the shuttle pickup. She did get
there by the skin of her teeth. I truly believe she thinks they
would have waited for her indefinitely.
[/quote]
Despidina,
Your comment that you are re-evaluating stories Sally has told
you now that you know more about Sally's behavior got me to
thinking.
There is someone in my extended family, "Emma", who for many
decades was late to almost everything she could get away with
being late to. The past ten years or so Emma seems to have grown
out of her perpetual lateness, but before that it was very
annoying and caused problems for other family members.
Anyhow, decades ago Emma would often complain about the people
she worked with, especially the men she worked with. They were
awful, she would say, they treated her terribly, they were
forever annoyed with her.
For years I pretty much believed whatever Emma said about her
work. (After all, I wasn't there to see for myself. Maybe the
men at her workplace really were mean to her.)
Then one day, when Emma's very frequent lateness once again
caused trouble for me and for several other family members, I
suddenly found myself feeling irritated and started thinking of
the men at Emma's workplace.
In Emma's stories, Emma was always blameless and others,
especially the men, were always bad.
For the first time, feeling irritated myself, I started
wondering if the reason men at her workplace were irritated with
Emma could have had anything to do with the problems her
frequent lateness might be causing them.
I would listen to Emma's complaints after that, but I would
quietly wonder to myself what the other side of her story might
be.
Fortunately, as I said above, Emma seems to have grown out of
always being late now that she is much older.
#Post#: 67906--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: SnappyLT Date: July 4, 2021, 9:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry; I told my story in my previous post but I forgot to
include my suggestion.
Despidina, I would suggest not setting yourself up for future
disappointment from Sally. I wouldn't make arrangements for any
activities with her.
If Sally hears about something you are planning and wants to
come along - OK, but only if she provides her own transportation
and/or the understanding that you won't wait around for her.
Then do your own thing. If she shows up on time, (unlikely, I
suspect), then great, have a good time with her. If she doesn't
show up at all or on time, go ahead without her (as you will
have warned her you will do).
#Post#: 67911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: sms Date: July 5, 2021, 9:53 am
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[quote author=SnappyLT link=topic=2089.msg67906#msg67906
date=1625453464]
I'm sorry; I told my story in my previous post but I forgot to
include my suggestion.
Despidina, I would suggest not setting yourself up for future
disappointment from Sally. I wouldn't make arrangements for any
activities with her.
If Sally hears about something you are planning and wants to
come along - OK, but only if she provides her own transportation
and/or the understanding that you won't wait around for her.
Then do your own thing. If she shows up on time, (unlikely, I
suspect), then great, have a good time with her. If she doesn't
show up at all or on time, go ahead without her (as you will
have warned her you will do).
[/quote]
Agreed - if a flaker wants to be included the burden has to be
on them and the "flakees" need to follow through on what they
say. Not that I think the OP does this but so many people
grumble and complain but then wait around or go along with the
changed up plans or even worse keep making plans with the
flakes.
#Post#: 68198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: malfoyfan13 Date: July 14, 2021, 12:17 pm
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I give people a few chances and if they are flaky, I'm done. I
used to give people many, many chances in the hope that they'd
change, but they usually don't, so I've learned to cut my losses
and make plans with people who actually show up.
I have a friend who is a "last minuter" who I rarely am able to
make plans with. I'm one of those who prefers concrete, won't
miss it unless i'm sick" types and she's the type who likes to
do everything at the last minute with no real plans. Doesn't
work for me. It's nice when we do see each other but for a
while it was like she just couldn't grasp that I don't do things
her way. I'm not sure I'd call her flaky but she likes things
loose and unplanned. Unless she has an appointment or something
like that.
In the OP's case I would simply say No to the flaky person and
if pressed for an answer say why. Otherwise, make plans with
those you can depend on. It's not worth the aggravation.
#Post#: 68855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dealing with a flake
By: bopper Date: August 3, 2021, 2:18 pm
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If you don't want to say "No", then just say "Oh, yea, that
sounds like fun."
She will never plan it.
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