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#Post#: 67699--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: Aleko Date: June 27, 2021, 9:35 am
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[quote]In Australia it would have to be very formal indeed for
anything other than her forename to be used. I can’t remember
the last letter I received addressing me as Ms Surname. And
anything that was I wouldn’t read because it’s most likely
trying to sell me something.[/quote]
That amuses me, because it's my experience that letters starting
'Dear Ms/Mrs Surname' are ones that matter, whereas anything
beginning 'Dear Givenname', unless obviously from someone I know
well, can safely be binned - because they are the ones that are
trying to sell me a timeshare or a book club membership.
[quote]This thread also has me thinking of the honorific
Esquire, and how men used it way back in the day. From what I
understand, it was considered a minimum sort of title, as it
were, if a man didn't have any other honorific to add to his
name.[/quote]
Strictly speaking, esquire was originally a rank below knight
and above gentleman. The eldest sons of knights, and their
eldest sons, were esquires; so were the eldest sons of the
younger sons of peers, so was anyone who had ever held, 'an
office of trust under the Crown' such as judges, magistrates,
Queen's Counsels, and military and naval officers.
#Post#: 67703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: peony Date: June 27, 2021, 11:03 am
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[quote]This thread also has me thinking of the honorific
Esquire, and how men used it way back in the day. From what I
understand, it was considered a minimum sort of title, as it
were, if a man didn't have any other honorific to add to his
name.[/quote]
Strictly speaking, esquire was originally a rank below knight
and above gentleman. The eldest sons of knights, and their
eldest sons, were esquires; so were the eldest sons of the
younger sons of peers, so was anyone who had ever held, 'an
office of trust under the Crown' such as judges, magistrates,
Queen's Counsels, and military and naval officers.
[/quote]
Ah! I'd thought that esquire was the equivalent to gentleman.
Thank you!
#Post#: 67704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: gramma dishes Date: June 27, 2021, 12:18 pm
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[quote author=peony link=topic=2032.msg67695#msg67695
date=1624802219]
...
One sometimes wants a bit of psychological or social distance
between one's self and others. For instance, I want my friends
to call me by my first name of course, but if a stranger does it
upon meeting me for the first time, it's off-putting with the
immediate assumption of familiarity that I may not feel like
reciprocating. And I think honorifics serve that function
too--giving people a bit of psychological space and polite
distance so they can evaluate the situation and see whether they
would like to be more informal going forward. In other words,
I'd err on the side of the honorific unless told differently.
For the record, Ms. really does the job, and I hope it becomes
default everywhere.
...
[/quote]
I agree. An example: I would never want my OB-GYN to call me
by my first name and a certainly wouldn't want to call him by
his first name. He is doctor and I am either Ms or Mrs but not
my given name. First names are for friends and closer
relationships. I do not want my 'friend' giving me physical
exams. I want my professional Dr. Lastname to do that!
And when I was teaching school, we all were known as Mr., Miss,
Mrs. or (eventually) Ms but again, never our first names. Even
our classroom plates were engraved with our formal names. The
only way the kids' parents knew my first name at all was that I
signed the report cards that way.
#Post#: 67705--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: sandisadie Date: June 27, 2021, 1:22 pm
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I find that now that I'm up there in age (beginning around age
75 up to now; age 83) people that I'm doing business with where
I live will usually call me Miss First Name instead of Mrs. Last
Name. But what can I do really? I must continue to do business
with them. So I feel like I must be polite and not correct
them, however gently I accomplish that. I want everything to go
smoothly and taking offense at how they are addressing me might
slightly diminish the successful conclusion of the project. One
woman even called me "honeybunch". Fortunately our business was
completed and I will never see her again. I had never even
thought about this problem until it started to happening to me.
I'm not offended if someone begins calling me by my first name,
it's just adding that "Miss" that is offensive.
#Post#: 67712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: Rho Date: June 27, 2021, 11:18 pm
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"Even our classroom plates were engraved with our formal names.
The only way the kids' parents knew my first name at all was
that I signed the report cards that way."
Well THAT explains my reaction when last month DD2, the teacher,
toured me around her school and I saw a plaque. It had all
staff members photos along with first and last names. I thought
I was being cranky not liking that first names were posted.
Ms. Bunch, Honey--glad to know you will never see THAT person
again.
#Post#: 67727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: JeanFromBNA Date: June 28, 2021, 2:10 pm
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[quote author=sandisadie link=topic=2032.msg67705#msg67705
date=1624818134]
I find that now that I'm up there in age (beginning around age
75 up to now; age 83) people that I'm doing business with where
I live will usually call me Miss First Name instead of Mrs. Last
Name. But what can I do really? I must continue to do business
with them. So I feel like I must be polite and not correct
them, however gently I accomplish that. I want everything to go
smoothly and taking offense at how they are addressing me might
slightly diminish the successful conclusion of the project. One
woman even called me "honeybunch". Fortunately our business was
completed and I will never see her again. I had never even
thought about this problem until it started to happening to me.
I'm not offended if someone begins calling me by my first name,
it's just adding that "Miss" that is offensive.
[/quote]
Unless the person who called you "honeybunch" was a middle-aged,
gum-snapping diner waitress, she was out of line. Otherwise, she
was in character.
I see that you're in Oklahoma. In the Southeast US, where I
live, every kid I know refers to me and every other woman as
"Miss Firstname," and my husband as "Mr. Firstname." Some
tradespeople and clerks do as well. This seems to be similar in
other Southeastern states, and I heard it in the Dallas, TX
area. I guess the honorific styling is not common in OK?
#Post#: 67728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: Jem Date: June 28, 2021, 2:33 pm
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[quote author=JeanFromBNA link=topic=2032.msg67727#msg67727
date=1624907416]
I see that you're in Oklahoma. In the Southeast US, where I
live, every kid I know refers to me and every other woman as
"Miss Firstname," and my husband as "Mr. Firstname." Some
tradespeople and clerks do as well. This seems to be similar in
other Southeastern states, and I heard it in the Dallas, TX
area. I guess the honorific styling is not common in OK?
[/quote]
I am not the poster you were asking, but I think a lot of
responses are regionally driven. I am from the Midwest and I
very strongly dislike being referred to as Miss Jem or Ma'am. To
me it comes across as condescending. I know that it is most
likely not intended that way, so I don't ever do anything about
it aside from inwardly cringe, but that doesn't change the fact
that I really hate being referred to as Miss or Ma'am.
I also don't like being referred to as Mrs. Myhusband's last
name or Mrs. ThenameIuseprofessionally. I prefer to be called
Jem, or Jem ThenameIuseprofessionally.
If I were a teacher or otherwise working with children (which I
am not) I am not sure how I would want to be addressed, but
almost certainly not at Mrs. Myhusband's last name!
#Post#: 67731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: sandisadie Date: June 28, 2021, 3:38 pm
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I agree with what Jem says. I've lived in Okla for 10 years and
gotten to be a real old person here. I'm originally from
Virginia and lived there until I was 40. I realize that people
who address me as Miss first name or any endearment, such as
Honey Bunch, think they are honoring me for being an old
person. I don't feel that way when I hear it though. However,
I never say anything to them because I realize they don't know
that I am offended by it. And I feel sure they would be
offended if I did say anything. I've lived in many states in
the last 40 plus years and know that every area has their own
customs and ways of doing things. Most of the time I've gone
along with the flow and just enjoyed the variety. Not being
address the way I've been used to most of my adult life is a
thing I've not gotten used to yet. Maybe when I'm 90!
#Post#: 67732--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: Hmmm Date: June 28, 2021, 4:34 pm
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[quote author=sandisadie link=topic=2032.msg67731#msg67731
date=1624912725]
I agree with what Jem says. I've lived in Okla for 10 years and
gotten to be a real old person here. I'm originally from
Virginia and lived there until I was 40. I realize that people
who address me as Miss first name or any endearment, such as
Honey Bunch, think they are honoring me for being an old
person. I don't feel that way when I hear it though. However,
I never say anything to them because I realize they don't know
that I am offended by it. And I feel sure they would be
offended if I did say anything. I've lived in many states in
the last 40 plus years and know that every area has their own
customs and ways of doing things. Most of the time I've gone
along with the flow and just enjoyed the variety. Not being
address the way I've been used to most of my adult life is a
thing I've not gotten used to yet. Maybe when I'm 90!
[/quote]
I grew up hearing my grandmother and grandfather being called
Miss Firstname and Mr Firstname by people who were their
employees of many years or or the middle aged offsprings of
their friends would use that form of address. In my small town,
there were two women who had held private kindergarten classes
for close to 30 years. I actually have no idea what their last
names were because they were always called Miss Maggie & Miss
Marie. Even the adults who had them as teachers and now had
their own kids in their classes referred to them that way.
I don't hear it as condescending. But I could see being bugged
by it if a receptionist I had never met decided to use that form
of address without permission.
#Post#: 67738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mrs., Miss or Ms.?
By: holly firestorm Date: June 28, 2021, 6:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2032.msg67732#msg67732
date=1624916054]
[quote author=sandisadie link=topic=2032.msg67731#msg67731
date=1624912725]
I agree with what Jem says. I've lived in Okla for 10 years and
gotten to be a real old person here. I'm originally from
Virginia and lived there until I was 40. I realize that people
who address me as Miss first name or any endearment, such as
Honey Bunch, think they are honoring me for being an old
person. I don't feel that way when I hear it though. However,
I never say anything to them because I realize they don't know
that I am offended by it. And I feel sure they would be
offended if I did say anything. I've lived in many states in
the last 40 plus years and know that every area has their own
customs and ways of doing things. Most of the time I've gone
along with the flow and just enjoyed the variety. Not being
address the way I've been used to most of my adult life is a
thing I've not gotten used to yet. Maybe when I'm 90!
[/quote]
I grew up hearing my grandmother and grandfather being called
Miss Firstname and Mr Firstname by people who were their
employees of many years or or the middle aged offsprings of
their friends would use that form of address. In my small town,
there were two women who had held private kindergarten classes
for close to 30 years. I actually have no idea what their last
names were because they were always called Miss Maggie & Miss
Marie. Even the adults who had them as teachers and now had
their own kids in their classes referred to them that way.
I don't hear it as condescending. But I could see being bugged
by it if a receptionist I had never met decided to use that form
of address without permission.
[/quote]
That's something I do...with people I know...whether they're
married or not. My best friend is married. But, I would still
say 'Miss Firstname' not 'Mrs. Firstname.' I also call call my
favorite Coaches, Dentists, etc. Coach Firstname, Dr. Firstname.
Familiar, but respectful, especially if I know them well enough
to call them "friends." Also, since at this point I'm older than
most of them... I kind of feel I've earned that privilege.
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