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#Post#: 64916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Gellchom
Date: March 26, 2021, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> [quote]Why do we have to be apologetic for having boundaries
in our own space?!!
--- End Quote ---
I don't think saying 'I'm sorry but . . .' is apologetic,
exactly. Of course we would all like the hospitality we have to
offer to be completely consonant with our guests' preferences,
and it's always a pity when this can't be so. To me, that's all
Hmm's wording is saying - that she's not setting this boundary
out of cussedness or lack of desire to be welcoming, but she is
setting it.
[/quote]
I agree. "I'm sorry" isn't always an apology; it can also be a
statement of sympathy or even just acknowledgement of an
inconvenience to others. Or, if the statement is made because
the smoker has just pulled out or lit a cigarette, "I'm sorry"
can help ease their embarrassment a tiny bit. In this case, it
doesn't sound to me like apologizing for having boundaries, just
making the request a bit gentler.
#Post#: 64926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Wanaca
Date: March 27, 2021, 5:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am a long time smoker (a pack a day for almost 40 years).
Most of us are used to restrictions and understand that people
don't want smoking around them. I would simply tell people
about the change before inviting them. Something like, "I don't
allow smoking on my property anymore, but I'd love for you to
come to...". Inviting them first gives them the opportunity to
quickly say, "Oh yes--I'd love to come!" before you say the new
restriction. They may want to think about it and plan what to
do (like when to arrive and how long to stay). We have to do
this all the time, so it's nothing unusual. I'd prefer that a
close friend tell me in person or on the phone rather than in
writing, but that may be just me. I like the personal touch.
I have left to do an errand, or at a picnic decided to take a
very long walk. Even when I'm only required to go outside, I
usually go down to the road off the property. Many people do
this and if walking down off the property is still unacceptable
due to smoke blowing on the air, you will have to say so. If
your smoking friends are polite, this shouldn't be an issue. If
your smoking friends aren't polite, you may want to reconsider
the relationships.
If the smell of smoke on someone's clothing bothers you, there
isn't much that a smoker can do to help it. They can try, but
it's still going to be there. You will have to weigh the
importance of the relationship with how much it bothers you.
#Post#: 64932--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: March 27, 2021, 9:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: oogyda link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64903#msg64903
date=1616765054]
> Who are the people who may want to smoke on your property? Is
it family and friends who have been allowed to smoke when
visiting previously? If so, I think you are going to need to
make then aware of your change in rules when you invite. A "I'm
sorry to say that since my illness, the smell of any smoke
really bothers me and we are no longer allowing smoking on the
property. I just wanted you to be aware before you arrive and be
surprised."
>
> If it is new people, then when they ask where they can smoke,
you'll need to tell them that you are sorry but you can't have
smoking on the property.
>
> You will want to be aware that some guests will disappear and
they want stay for long. When our kids were under 13 or so, a
family member didn't want them to see him smoking so he'd "need
to run a quick errand" or make a phone call and get in his car
and drive down the street for a ways. It was a bit irritating to
me because I'd rather he just stayed out on the driveway instead
of coming back in smelling more of smoke from being in his car.
A friend of my MIL's is a pretty heavy smoker and goes outside
to smoke but she only stays anywhere she can't smoke in doors
for an hour or so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why do we have to be apologetic for having boundaries in our own
space?!!
[/quote]
Why do you feel like this phrasing is apologetic. Do you never
tell people that you are sorry they are not feeling well? As
other have said, the phase is just acknowledgement that they
probably will feel inconvenienced.
#Post#: 64937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: oogyda
Date: March 27, 2021, 12:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=2017.msg64909#msg64909
date=1616779587]
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64903#msg64903
date=1616765054]
> Who are the people who may want to smoke on your property? Is
it family and friends who have been allowed to smoke when
visiting previously? If so, I think you are going to need to
make then aware of your change in rules when you invite. A "I'm
sorry to say that since my illness, the smell of any smoke
really bothers me and we are no longer allowing smoking on the
property. I just wanted you to be aware before you arrive and be
surprised."
>
> If it is new people, then when they ask where they can smoke,
you'll need to tell them that you are sorry but you can't have
smoking on the property.
>
> You will want to be aware that some guests will disappear and
they want stay for long. When our kids were under 13 or so, a
family member didn't want them to see him smoking so he'd "need
to run a quick errand" or make a phone call and get in his car
and drive down the street for a ways. It was a bit irritating to
me because I'd rather he just stayed out on the driveway instead
of coming back in smelling more of smoke from being in his car.
A friend of my MIL's is a pretty heavy smoker and goes outside
to smoke but she only stays anywhere she can't smoke in doors
for an hour or so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why do we have to be apologetic for having boundaries in our own
space?!!
[/quote]
Why do you feel like this phrasing is apologetic. Do you never
tell people that you are sorry they are not feeling well? As
other have said, the phase is just acknowledgement that they
probably will feel inconvenienced.
[/quote]
I do say "I'm sorry you're not feeling well." I also say things
like "I'm sorry you're going through a rough time." because I
genuinely feel sympathy for their situation.
If I've gone through what M21S has, I'm not going feel sympathy
that someone can't smoke on my property. It's a rule or
boundary she's put in place to protect herself and she should do
so without remorse.
Even if I were to actually feel bad that someone can't smoke on
my property, I wouldn't feel bad enough to apologize for it. If
they expressed their displeasure (especially knowing I'd been
through something like that), any sympathy I may have had would
quickly dissipate.
edited:
A great many people here believe they have to soften statements
out of politeness/consideration. I don't believe there is
inherent rudeness in being direct and, IMO, it leaves less room
for negotiation. Those who want their way will find and take
whatever opening they can.
#Post#: 64982--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: March 29, 2021, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: oogyda link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64932#msg64932
date=1616854806]
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=2017.msg64909#msg64909
date=1616779587]
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64903#msg64903
date=1616765054]
> Who are the people who may want to smoke on your property? Is
it family and friends who have been allowed to smoke when
visiting previously? If so, I think you are going to need to
make then aware of your change in rules when you invite. A "I'm
sorry to say that since my illness, the smell of any smoke
really bothers me and we are no longer allowing smoking on the
property. I just wanted you to be aware before you arrive and be
surprised."
>
> If it is new people, then when they ask where they can smoke,
you'll need to tell them that you are sorry but you can't have
smoking on the property.
>
> You will want to be aware that some guests will disappear and
they want stay for long. When our kids were under 13 or so, a
family member didn't want them to see him smoking so he'd "need
to run a quick errand" or make a phone call and get in his car
and drive down the street for a ways. It was a bit irritating to
me because I'd rather he just stayed out on the driveway instead
of coming back in smelling more of smoke from being in his car.
A friend of my MIL's is a pretty heavy smoker and goes outside
to smoke but she only stays anywhere she can't smoke in doors
for an hour or so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why do we have to be apologetic for having boundaries in our own
space?!!
[/quote]
Why do you feel like this phrasing is apologetic. Do you never
tell people that you are sorry they are not feeling well? As
other have said, the phase is just acknowledgement that they
probably will feel inconvenienced.
[/quote]
I do say "I'm sorry you're not feeling well." I also say things
like "I'm sorry you're going through a rough time." because I
genuinely feel sympathy for their situation.
If I've gone through what M21S has, I'm not going feel sympathy
that someone can't smoke on my property. It's a rule or
boundary she's put in place to protect herself and she should do
so without remorse.
Even if I were to actually feel bad that someone can't smoke on
my property, I wouldn't feel bad enough to apologize for it. If
they expressed their displeasure (especially knowing I'd been
through something like that), any sympathy I may have had would
quickly dissipate.
edited:
A great many people here believe they have to soften statements
out of politeness/consideration. I don't believe there is
inherent rudeness in being direct and, IMO, it leaves less room
for negotiation. Those who want their way will find and take
whatever opening they can.
[/quote]
But there is no apology in the statement I wrote. It is not an
apology. It can really be interpreted to say that I'm sorry for
myself that smoke smell bothers me.
All being direct means is that you are open, honest and say
exactly what you mean. What in the statement I wrote is not
open, honest or doesn't convey exactly what I was trying to
convey?
#Post#: 64998--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: oogyda
Date: March 29, 2021, 2:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hmmm link ---
>
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=2017.msg64937#msg64937
date=1616865939]
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64932#msg64932
date=1616854806]
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=2017.msg64909#msg64909
date=1616779587]
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64903#msg64903
date=1616765054]
> Who are the people who may want to smoke on your property? Is
it family and friends who have been allowed to smoke when
visiting previously? If so, I think you are going to need to
make then aware of your change in rules when you invite. A "I'm
sorry to say that since my illness, the smell of any smoke
really bothers me and we are no longer allowing smoking on the
property. I just wanted you to be aware before you arrive and be
surprised."
>
> If it is new people, then when they ask where they can smoke,
you'll need to tell them that you are sorry but you can't have
smoking on the property.
>
> You will want to be aware that some guests will disappear and
they want stay for long. When our kids were under 13 or so, a
family member didn't want them to see him smoking so he'd "need
to run a quick errand" or make a phone call and get in his car
and drive down the street for a ways. It was a bit irritating to
me because I'd rather he just stayed out on the driveway instead
of coming back in smelling more of smoke from being in his car.
A friend of my MIL's is a pretty heavy smoker and goes outside
to smoke but she only stays anywhere she can't smoke in doors
for an hour or so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why do we have to be apologetic for having boundaries in our own
space?!!
[/quote]
Why do you feel like this phrasing is apologetic. Do you never
tell people that you are sorry they are not feeling well? As
other have said, the phase is just acknowledgement that they
probably will feel inconvenienced.
[/quote]
I do say "I'm sorry you're not feeling well." I also say things
like "I'm sorry you're going through a rough time." because I
genuinely feel sympathy for their situation.
If I've gone through what M21S has, I'm not going feel sympathy
that someone can't smoke on my property. It's a rule or
boundary she's put in place to protect herself and she should do
so without remorse.
Even if I were to actually feel bad that someone can't smoke on
my property, I wouldn't feel bad enough to apologize for it. If
they expressed their displeasure (especially knowing I'd been
through something like that), any sympathy I may have had would
quickly dissipate.
edited:
A great many people here believe they have to soften statements
out of politeness/consideration. I don't believe there is
inherent rudeness in being direct and, IMO, it leaves less room
for negotiation. Those who want their way will find and take
whatever opening they can.
[/quote]
But there is no apology in the statement I wrote. It is not an
apology. It can really be interpreted to say that I'm sorry for
myself that smoke smell bothers me.
All being direct means is that you are open, honest and say
exactly what you mean. What in the statement I wrote is not
open, honest or doesn't convey exactly what I was trying to
convey?
[/quote]
I guess we're arguing at cross purposes, then. My
interpretation of "I'm sorry" is an expression of remorse or
regret. An apology.
If there's no apology in your statement, then what do you intend
"I'm sorry" to mean?
#Post#: 65000--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: March 29, 2021, 2:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: oogyda link ---
>
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64982#msg64982
date=1617026574]
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=2017.msg64937#msg64937
date=1616865939]
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64932#msg64932
date=1616854806]
> [quote author=oogyda link=topic=2017.msg64909#msg64909
date=1616779587]
> [quote author=Hmmm link=topic=2017.msg64903#msg64903
date=1616765054]
> Who are the people who may want to smoke on your property? Is
it family and friends who have been allowed to smoke when
visiting previously? If so, I think you are going to need to
make then aware of your change in rules when you invite. A "I'm
sorry to say that since my illness, the smell of any smoke
really bothers me and we are no longer allowing smoking on the
property. I just wanted you to be aware before you arrive and be
surprised."
>
> If it is new people, then when they ask where they can smoke,
you'll need to tell them that you are sorry but you can't have
smoking on the property.
>
> You will want to be aware that some guests will disappear and
they want stay for long. When our kids were under 13 or so, a
family member didn't want them to see him smoking so he'd "need
to run a quick errand" or make a phone call and get in his car
and drive down the street for a ways. It was a bit irritating to
me because I'd rather he just stayed out on the driveway instead
of coming back in smelling more of smoke from being in his car.
A friend of my MIL's is a pretty heavy smoker and goes outside
to smoke but she only stays anywhere she can't smoke in doors
for an hour or so.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why do we have to be apologetic for having boundaries in our own
space?!!
[/quote]
Why do you feel like this phrasing is apologetic. Do you never
tell people that you are sorry they are not feeling well? As
other have said, the phase is just acknowledgement that they
probably will feel inconvenienced.
[/quote]
I do say "I'm sorry you're not feeling well." I also say things
like "I'm sorry you're going through a rough time." because I
genuinely feel sympathy for their situation.
If I've gone through what M21S has, I'm not going feel sympathy
that someone can't smoke on my property. It's a rule or
boundary she's put in place to protect herself and she should do
so without remorse.
Even if I were to actually feel bad that someone can't smoke on
my property, I wouldn't feel bad enough to apologize for it. If
they expressed their displeasure (especially knowing I'd been
through something like that), any sympathy I may have had would
quickly dissipate.
edited:
A great many people here believe they have to soften statements
out of politeness/consideration. I don't believe there is
inherent rudeness in being direct and, IMO, it leaves less room
for negotiation. Those who want their way will find and take
whatever opening they can.
[/quote]
But there is no apology in the statement I wrote. It is not an
apology. It can really be interpreted to say that I'm sorry for
myself that smoke smell bothers me.
All being direct means is that you are open, honest and say
exactly what you mean. What in the statement I wrote is not
open, honest or doesn't convey exactly what I was trying to
convey?
[/quote]
I guess we're arguing at cross purposes, then. My
interpretation of "I'm sorry" is an expression of remorse or
regret. An apology.
If there's no apology in your statement, then what do you intend
"I'm sorry" to mean?
[/quote]
Sympathy, empathy, sadness....the same meaning as when you tell
someone you are sorry they are not feeling well. You're not
apologizing then are you?
#Post#: 65004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Gellchom
Date: March 29, 2021, 3:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
One time when an election observer training I had arranged was
being held at our synagogue, the attendees and the people
checking in had been told that no one could bring in any food,
but someone slipped by — with a baked potato with bacon. I saw
it and said to her, “I’m sorry, but this is a kosher synagogue,
so I must ask you to take that outside immediately.”
Did I feel bad about enforcing a boundary about not bringing
pork into a synagogue? Was I apologizing for the synagogue
being kosher? Of course not.
I guess I could’ve said, “This is a synagogue. Nonkosher food
is not permitted. You were told that no food could be brought
in. Take that out of here immediately.”
But I don’t see how that’s going to work any better, nor is it
any more “direct,” than what I said. She was likely to be
embarrassed; why not soften the blow a bit? Don’t cost nothing.
#Post#: 65012--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Aleko
Date: March 30, 2021, 2:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Also, it’s all about how you say ‘sorry’. Done right, as in
Gellchom’s example, it can carry the clear implication ‘You’ve
just hit a brick wall. Nope, not going to happen. Back down.’
#Post#: 65020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guests and smoking
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: March 30, 2021, 9:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> Also, it’s all about how you say ‘sorry’. Done right, as in
Gellchom’s example, it can carry the clear implication ‘You’ve
just hit a brick wall. Nope, not going to happen. Back down.’
>
--- End Quote ---
So true.... when one of my kids would smart mouth and I
responded with "I'm sorry, what did you just say?"... there was
no doubt about who needed to be doing the apology. ;)
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