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#Post#: 64692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: DaDancingPsych Date: March 20, 2021, 9:35 pm
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[quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=2011.msg64685#msg64685
date=1616282196]
[quote]We all have our areas that need improvement. Rather than
being annoyed by this friend's timing, maybe this is someone who
you could help you? Have a chat about how she plans for a day;
she might have some tips that you might find helpful. You
certainly don't need to adjust your ways to being 45 minutes
early, but it may be a worthwhile conversation for your personal
goal.[/quote]
Our OP is sometimes late 5 to 10 minutes; I really don't think
there's much advice that would be useful coming from someone who
consistently arrives 45 minutes early.
Personally, 5 minutes late is simply within the bounds of normal
travel. Even as a hiring manager, I don't care if an applicant
is 5 minutes late; I may not even care at 10 minutes late.
[/quote]
Maybe not. But I was able to offer such advice, so maybe so. I
had a talk with a friend who struggles with tardiness and it
really came down to a few things for her. She needed to be more
aware of what time it was throughout the day (especially when
she had timed commitments) so that the day didn't slip away. She
needed to plan ahead. Rather than waiting until the last minute
to prepare for the outing, she needed to prep the evening
before. (She was often late trying to bake something for the
gathering.) And she needed to learn to pad her timing to account
for the unexpected. They were all relatively simple things, but
they were effecting her timeliness. The OP said that they wanted
to work on this, so I really don't think my idea of a
conversation is all that terrible.
I can certainly understand someone being late by 5 or 10 minutes
every once in awhile. Life happens. But when the person is
ALWAYS late by a few minutes, it does start to annoy me. And if
a job applicant is a few minutes, I wouldn't say that that is a
deal breaker. But it is a clue as to how they will handle
things.
#Post#: 64729--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: lowspark Date: March 22, 2021, 8:44 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2011.msg64656#msg64656
date=1616234013]
[quote]I am the OP and I'd really like an explanation of how
being delayed through no fault of your own is not valuing the
other person's time, especially when the other person has been
notified that was the case. [/quote]
Well, you yourself say that you have a tendency to be late, so
that this friend (and all your other friends) routinely end up
waiting for you. That is, indeed, not valuing their time. If you
were normally on time for things and being late was out of
character, I’m sure she would not have been annoyed with
you; as it was, it evidently struck her as ‘ho hum, even
worse than normal’.
And in my experience (including of myself; I have often been
guilty as charged), people who routinely turn up late do so
because they calculate the time needed to get there on the basis
that the journey will run 100% smoothly. So their friends and
colleagues get used, when they turn up late, to hearing
‘Not my fault! It was the traffic / the bus service / the
long ticket queue’, and will tend to discount any such
excuses.
[/quote]
This is what I was going to say. Everyone has something happen
once in a while that makes them late. That's life. But when
someone is consistently late, even just a few minutes, it does
come across as valuing their time more than others'. If you've
been making the effort to be on time more, particularly with
this friend as you said, that's great! But from the friend's
point of view, this probably just seems like a backslide.
The fact that she gets there so early is almost a red herring.
Regardless of the time she gets there, you are (or have been or
had been) arriving late. After a while, it really doesn't matter
why you're late, or whether the reason that particular day was
or wasn't in your control, because consistent lateness is in
your control.
If you are not planning for unexpected delays, and those delays
happen consistently enough, then they really aren't unexpected,
just unplanned for.
As far as apologizing, one can apologize for things out of their
control. An apology isn't just reserved for things you did
deliberately. Often it's just an expression of courtesy.
I get that this kind of feedback can be very difficult to hear.
We all seem to be saying it's your fault, even if it isn't
within your control.
If I am supposed to be somewhere that is a 20 minute drive from
my house, I don't plan to walk out of my door at exactly 20
minutes before. Inevitably as I'm about to walk out, I realize I
forgot something in my room or my keys aren't where they are
supposed to be or I get a text message I want to read and reply
to, or whatever. Plus there's the time it takes me to walk out
the door, lock up, set the alarm, get settled in my car, pull
out of the driveway.
All that can take up anywhere from three minutes to seven or
eight! Then I hit that one traffic light that makes me miss all
the others and I went from "leaving on time" (20 min before the
appointment) to being 12 minutes late. And I still have to find
a place to park and walk into the restaurant. And all of that is
just normal everyday stuff that is pretty much within my
control. Not that I can make it not happen, but I can plan for
it.
People who are consistently on time or early understand this
dynamic and do plan for it. Sure, it often ends up getting me
places five or ten minutes early, but the vast majority of the
time I get there within maybe just a couple of minutes of the
right time, because that is the very nature of this -- things
always end up taking longer than I anticipate.
As we always say here, you can't control what others do, only
yourself. The time your friend arrives is completely out of your
control and should not concern you. The time you get there is,
to a great extent, within your control.
#Post#: 64733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early? (More info.)
By: Hmmm Date: March 22, 2021, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=LifeOnPluto link=topic=2011.msg64653#msg64653
date=1616213508]
[quote author=baritone108 link=topic=2011.msg64641#msg64641
date=1616186526]
First, thank you all for your opinions. I asked for them and I
understand them. So this is just more info to add a little
context due to interest expressed, not to change anyone's
response.
Friend and I are both retired. The restaurant we were meeting
at is about a 20 min drive from each of our houses and we were
meeting at a time when traffic would not be an issue. After
lunch our plan was to go to her home and work a jigsaw puzzle
for the afternoon.
I have a tendency (which I work on) to be 5 to 10 minutes late
for this type of thing. I already know that's rude, as I said
I'm working on it. It hasn't been a problem when meeting with
this friend for a while. I am almost always on time with her
now. Although it's not her fault, because I am trying so hard
not to be late and she is always there waiting (meaning already
seated) when I get there it does tend to make me feel like I am
late even when I'm not. (I heard you, my problem.)
Someone commented that I owed her an apology for being 15 min
late this time. I disagree. Something happened which was
entirely out of my control a little over an hour ahead of time
which was going to delay me. I gave her almost an hour's
notice. This stuff happens. Her tone of voice was such that
there was no point in the notice because she was already there.
(I do apologize when late through my own fault.)
Anyway, I see that she was not rude to me by arriving 45 min
early (I have my own feelings about whether she was rude to the
restaurant),
Thanks, again, for the input.
[/quote]
OP. thanks for providing the additional information. As I was
reading your initial post, I couldn't help but think "How busy a
life does your friend lead, if she can afford to arrive so early
every single time you meet up?" It sounds from your follow-up
post that perhaps she doesn't have that much happening in her
life... and hence she enjoys getting out of the house, and
hanging out in public to kill time?
As for your question, I don't think your friend is being rude to
you, but I personally would find it odd. Arriving 5-10 minutes
early is understandable. Arriving 45 minutes early is just
strange. (And I agree with other posters - I'd be tempted to ask
her why she always arrives so early!). For your next catch-up,
I'd also be tempted to turn up an hour early, just to see what
happens! (It would be pretty funny if it devolved into a
stand-off where you both started arriving earlier and earlier,
hours in advance, just to beat the other person there!).
I do however, think she is being rude to the restaurant by
arriving so early - unless she is ordering a drink and/or a
snack.
[/quote]
This seems to imply that her arriving early has something to do
with the OP and not just that she might enjoy arriving early,
sitting with a book and doing some people watching. I don't
think it has to come to a competition.
#Post#: 64743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: Jem Date: March 22, 2021, 11:20 am
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[quote author=lowspark link=topic=2011.msg64729#msg64729
date=1616420697]
...
If you are not planning for unexpected delays, and those delays
happen consistently enough, then they really aren't unexpected,
just unplanned for.
...
[/quote]
I like the way you phrased this!
A multi-car accident that closes down a highway is an unexpected
delay. Normal rush hour traffic is not.
#Post#: 64745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: Aleko Date: March 22, 2021, 11:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]If I am supposed to be somewhere that is a 20 minute
drive from my house, I don't plan to walk out of my door at
exactly 20 minutes before. [/quote]
Absolutely. But it really bugs me when my MIL, who lives 350
yards from us and really can time the walk to our front door to
within a minute, decides to pole up half an hour earlier than
she was invited for. When I did once point out to her that this
is just Not Done, she trilled merrily 'Oh, but that doesn't
matter when it's family' Oh yes it does! We might not be still
madly polishing up our silver or shifting the furniture as we
might be for 'genteel company', but we're still nailing down the
corners of everything we need to finish doing that evening
before we can start being sociable, and her arriving will mean
one of us has to drop their tasks and attend to her.
Just as annoying is when guests who arrive early think they can
get themselves off the hook by crying 'I know I'm early, but you
can just ignore me, hahaha!' - which of course is blatantly
untrue. We know and they know that we can't: it would be a
shocking breach of the laws of hospitality to reply 'Okay, just
take yourself off to the sitting room and sit there quietly, and
we'll be along in half an hour to ask you what you'd like to
drink'.
#Post#: 64749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: NFPwife Date: March 22, 2021, 12:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Jem link=topic=2011.msg64743#msg64743
date=1616430036]
[quote author=lowspark link=topic=2011.msg64729#msg64729
date=1616420697]
...
If you are not planning for unexpected delays, and those delays
happen consistently enough, then they really aren't unexpected,
just unplanned for.
...
[/quote]
I like the way you phrased this!
A multi-car accident that closes down a highway is an unexpected
delay. Normal rush hour traffic is not.
[/quote]
Agree!
In two areas where I've held trainings, certain staff would be
late and one would say, "It was the 6 train, the 6 is always
delayed." I'd think, "Then it's not the 6 train, it's you not
planning for the difference between the 6's posted schedule and
its typical schedule."
In another area they'd say, "The traffic here is the worst!"
It's an area with notorious traffic. I ran it on google maps,
added 50% to it and arrived 20 minutes early.
It's a typical event you didn't plan for, not an unplanned
event.
I was driving somewhere and the highway overpass came crashing
down about 6 cars in front of me. That was an unplanned event.
Several posters have given their tips and tricks for arriving on
time. I have friends who travel on what I call "perfect time" -
meaning they got to the location one time in 20 minutes - it was
a sunny day, a public holiday with no traffic, and they found a
perfect parking spot at the door. They then use that "perfect
time" for all future planning. (Or they google map it during the
evening and don't make the adjustment for the time they'd
actually leave.)
As others have said, the friend isn't rude to OP to arrive early
to a public place. Whether or not friend is rude to restaurant
staff isn't germane to this conversation; we don't have enough
details and friend isn't asking us if her behavior is rude.
A book I read had a little section on timeliness and there was a
comment that "there's power in early," especially in business.
Being early means you can organize your notes and thoughts for a
meeting or have a drink and unwind to be more fully present for
a social engagement. That really resonated with me and I
adjusted "on time" to mean 10 - 15 minutes before the event and
I'll never go back. Previously, I was on time, but often arrived
stressed after navigating through the little annoyances of
commuting - a bread truck double parked and stopping traffic to
make their delivery. Someone in the parking garage trying three
cards and a fistful of change to pre pay at the one stall
entrance, etc. etc. Those things still happen, but they're less
annoying in general and I have time to shake it off before my
engagement.
#Post#: 64750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: Jem Date: March 22, 2021, 12:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=2011.msg64745#msg64745
date=1616432346]
[quote]If I am supposed to be somewhere that is a 20 minute
drive from my house, I don't plan to walk out of my door at
exactly 20 minutes before. [/quote]
Absolutely. But it really bugs me when my MIL, who lives 350
yards from us and really can time the walk to our front door to
within a minute, decides to pole up half an hour earlier than
she was invited for. When I did once point out to her that this
is just Not Done, she trilled merrily 'Oh, but that doesn't
matter when it's family' Oh yes it does! We might not be still
madly polishing up our silver or shifting the furniture as we
might be for 'genteel company', but we're still nailing down the
corners of everything we need to finish doing that evening
before we can start being sociable, and her arriving will mean
one of us has to drop their tasks and attend to her.
Just as annoying is when guests who arrive early think they can
get themselves off the hook by crying 'I know I'm early, but you
can just ignore me, hahaha!' - which of course is blatantly
untrue. We know and they know that we can't: it would be a
shocking breach of the laws of hospitality to reply 'Okay, just
take yourself off to the sitting room and sit there quietly, and
we'll be along in half an hour to ask you what you'd like to
drink'.
[/quote]
I think most posters have stated that there is a difference
between arriving early to a public space or to a private home or
event. I think all of us have said that if we arrive early to
private home or event we "kill time" and show up at the door
exactly on time. If I know how to get somewhere, I can usually
time this pretty well. If I don't, I may find my location and
depending on how early I am drive around the block or go to a
nearby store, but I don't just walk in early.
#Post#: 64753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: gramma dishes Date: March 22, 2021, 2:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=PVZFan link=topic=2011.msg64749#msg64749
date=1616434516]
...
I was driving somewhere and the highway overpass came crashing
down about 6 cars in front of me. That was an unplanned event.
...
[/quote]
Now THAT would get your attention! :o
#Post#: 64759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: Aleko Date: March 22, 2021, 3:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]I think most posters have stated that there is a
difference between arriving early to a public space or to a
private home or event.[/quote]
Oh sure, I absolutely agree. It's just been rankling with me for
some time, and I've come to the conclusion that if people are
going to be inconsiderate enough to turn up at my door
unnecessarily early I'd almost rather have them breeze in
shamelessly, ignoring their faux pas, than pretend that they
aren't going to inconvenience us.
#Post#: 64785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is it rude to be too early?
By: VorFemme Date: March 23, 2021, 9:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I usually aim for one to three minutes after the start time at a
home and a little earlier at a doctor's office or other public
space. The one time that I didn't get emailed a change in the
start time and showed up an hour early, I got put to work
getting things ready and apologized to for the hostess not
realizing that I had been left off the email address list. I
also got thanked as the event started for showing up and helping
assemble some things that helped her be ready on time.
Moving to Houston (large metropolitan area - in every sense of
the word, there are built up areas and the collection of
municipalities sprawls out) - I learned that I needed to add at
least 40% more time just for traffic and distance as my husband
would tell me he needed (he knew shortcuts and tends to remember
only that one *perfect time* when it took twenty minutes instead
of the other 90% of the time when he was LATE due to having had
to go back inside & get his sunglasses, wallet, shopping list,
or whatever).
Now that I've been here almost 15 years, I have a much better
grasp of when *I* want to leave to get places a few minutes
early (at least on my side of town) and I'm on time or slightly
early...unless I end up going through an accident scene or rush
hour is running late.
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