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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 62810--------------------------------------------------
"Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle Obama"--a
change to old etiquette
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: January 20, 2021, 9:59 am
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I'm watching the inauguration, and the introdctions
They introduced Bill and Hillary Clinton as:
The 42nd president of the United States, the Honorable Bill
Clinton and the Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton
Makes sense; she is a former secretary of state, so "honorable"
fits
But then:
The 43rd president of the United States, the Honorable George W.
Bush and Mrs. Laura Bush
and
The 44th president of the United States, the Honorable Barack
Obama and Mrs. Michelle Obama
Time was, "Mrs. Jane Doe" was reserved for divorcees. Widows
were always Mrs. John Doe; my grandmother was pretty fierce
about it, actually. She felt it honored her husband, and she was
emphatic that she had NOT been divorced.
That rule hasn't been followed for a while, but it was
interesting to see it not being used in such a formal place,
where protocol experts must have prepared all the scripts.
I think I would have expected them to use not a title at all.
#Post#: 62811--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: gramma dishes
Date: January 20, 2021, 10:57 am
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I may be in error here, but I think Hillary Clinton's name is
prefaced with the word Honorable because she was a Senator.
#Post#: 62812--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: Rose Red
Date: January 20, 2021, 11:07 am
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I think it's changed for the better. I have my own name and am
my own person, and wouldn't like to be called Mrs. John Smith.
My name is not John.
If we get a letter, I prefer it addressed to Mr. and Mrs. John
and Jane Smith. Women didn't fight long and hard for rights to
still be thought of as an extension of their husbands.
YMMV
#Post#: 62813--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: gramma dishes
Date: January 20, 2021, 11:08 am
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--- Quote from: TootsNYC link ---
>
>
>
> Time was, "Mrs. Jane Doe" was reserved for divorcees. Widows
were always Mrs. John Doe; my grandmother was pretty fierce
about it, actually. She felt it honored her husband, and she was
emphatic that she had NOT been divorced.
>
> That rule hasn't been followed for a while, but it was
interesting to see it not being used in such a formal place,
where protocol experts must have prepared all the scripts.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
When I was in high school we were taught that an envelope to a
woman who was married or who was widowed should be addressed in
her husband's name as in your given example. After my Dad
died, my mother set me straight real fast on that one -- that
she was just Suzie Snaggletooth or even Mrs. Suzie Snaggletooth,
not Mrs. Sam Snaggletooth. It quite threw me for a loop! I
explained to her that probably the senders had been instructed
otherwise just as I had been and that I was certain no insult
was intended. They had (as you mentioned) either intended it as
an honor to Dad.
#Post#: 62818--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: January 20, 2021, 12:58 pm
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--- Quote from: gramma dishes link ---
>
> I may be in error here, but I think Hillary Clinton's name is
prefaced with the word Honorable because she was a Senator.
>
--- End Quote ---
That could be. And of course it comes first. Cabinet positions
not? I'll have to look.
It is both.
HTML https://www.formsofaddress.info/secretary_cabinet_member/
--- Quote ---
> —-#1) Such high former officials appointed by the President
and approved by the Senate continue to be in writing:
> ————The Honorable (Full Name)
>
>
--- End Quote ---
So is she "the Honorable Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton"? And
since former governors are "the Honorable," is her husband "the
Honorable Honorable Bill Clinton"?
(just kidding)
#Post#: 62822--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: January 20, 2021, 1:57 pm
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I'm also happy to see the change. I'm fine with being addressed
as Mr & Mrs John Smith if you are addressing both of us. But
even after 25+ years, I still can't get used to receiving
something addressed to just me as Mrs John Smith.
With the First Ladies, I did notice on the George W Bush library
site that her bio is of Mrs. Laura Bush and she is also
referenced in this manner on the whitehouse.gov site. So she has
been styling herself this way for a while. She appears to be the
first First Lady to use this address as I didn't see any of the
previous First Ladies use this form of address on the .gov site
or the presidential library sites.
Michelle Obama is also listed as Mrs. Michelle Obama on the the
Obama Presidential Library site but I didn't see that form used
on the .gov site.
#Post#: 62827--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: Lilipons
Date: January 20, 2021, 3:17 pm
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I agree that the change is a good thing. After all, these women
(and indeed all women) are deserving of their individuality.
I would also like to propose another change. Kamala Harris’
husband has several times been referred today as the ‘Second
Gentleman’. To me, that’s quite awkward. Because we have never
had a female Veep, Second Lady doesn’t strike most of us as odd.
Second Gentleman does.
Why don’t we just make it ‘Second Spouse’?
Edited to change ‘wayward’ to ‘awkward’. Auto correct works
like the Lord, ‘in strange ways’
#Post#: 62828--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: January 20, 2021, 4:22 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I did notice on the George W Bush library site that her bio is
of Mrs. Laura Bush and she is also referenced in this manner on
the whitehouse.gov site. So she has been styling herself this
way for a while. She appears to be the first First Lady to use
this address as I didn't see any of the previous First Ladies
use this form of address on the .gov site or the presidential
library sites.
>
> Michelle Obama is also listed as Mrs. Michelle Obama on the
the Obama Presidential Library site but I didn't see that form
used on the .gov site.
--- End Quote ---
These may have influenced the choice as well; it's always polite
to use the term people prefer.
#Post#: 62831--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: silversurfer
Date: January 20, 2021, 7:10 pm
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When we had a female Prime Minister in Australia, her partner
was casually referred to as 'first bloke'.
noting we dont really have the whole 'first lady' over her,
partners of PM's are generally referred to as 'PM's wife, title
first name (her first name) last name.
#Post#: 62837--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Mrs. Laura Bush," "Mrs. Michelle
Obama"--a change to old etiquette
DIR By: AnnNottingham
Date: January 20, 2021, 9:33 pm
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--- Quote from: Lilipons link ---
>
> I agree that the change is a good thing. After all, these
women (and indeed all women) are deserving of their
individuality.
>
> I would also like to propose another change. Kamala Harris’
husband has several times been referred today as the ‘Second
Gentleman’. To me, that’s quite awkward. Because we have never
had a female Veep, Second Lady doesn’t strike most of us as odd.
Second Gentleman does.
>
> Why don’t we just make it ‘Second Spouse’?
>
> Edited to change ‘wayward’ to ‘awkward’. Auto correct works
like the Lord, ‘in strange ways’
>
--- End Quote ---
I read somewhere that he chose "Second Gentleman" himself.
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