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#Post#: 60541--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: oogyda Date: November 20, 2020, 1:25 pm
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[quote author=gramma dishes link=topic=1924.msg60528#msg60528
date=1605885498]
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
I think many families have their "normal" meals at the kitchen
table or even at bars/countertops/islands with bar stools.
Meals tend to be more relaxed and sometimes napkins need to be
used and other times, maybe not really. When our kids were
little we often used Viva paper towels as napkins because they
were soft and absorbent and could just be thrown away. If they
weren't very dirty, we even used them to clean up after the
meal.
Somehow they all managed to know how to set a 'real' table in a
dining room, complete with cloth napkins neatly and precisely
placed. So they didn't embarrass us by demonstrating publicly
their lack of consistent table setting education.
My husband (who is incredibly polite, intelligent and
knowledgeable) has no idea how to set a table. When he does it
here, our grandchildren just look at him and smile. He never
puts napkins out, forks can be on either side of the plate,
knife blades may be turned in toward the plate or not.
Sometimes even the silverware or glasses don't match. That's my
turning point. I never say a word, but discreetly switch
things out to make sure that all the glasses match and all the
silverware at each place setting is the same.
Every family situation is different and we all need to be
reasonable about little differences. The important thing is
being together and enjoying each other's company, not where the
napkins and utensils are placed. But still, it IS an important
skill for kids (and adults) to have.
[/quote]
I refuse to be embarrassed by my children's ability, inability
or lack of desire to set a table "properly". Even if I hadn't
taught them along the way, if it's important for them to know,
they will find the resources to learn.
ODD sets a beautiful table.
YDD simply does not think it's horribly important and feels that
anyone who would think less of her on that basis isn't worth
having in her life.
#Post#: 60628--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: Hmmm Date: November 23, 2020, 8:24 am
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[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
You NEVER joke around with others about the idiosyncrasies of
your family members with others? Remembering to set out both
napkins and glasses of water during a meal is far less "proper
table settings". It's the basic items needed to have a meal.
#Post#: 60643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: SureJan Date: November 23, 2020, 12:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1924.msg60628#msg60628
date=1606141446]
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
You NEVER joke around with others about the idiosyncrasies of
your family members with others? Remembering to set out both
napkins and glasses of water during a meal is far less "proper
table settings". It's the basic items needed to have a meal.
[/quote]
This actually had me shaking my head because in my entire life,
no matter how formal the meal, I’ve never been to a meal at
someone’s house where glasses of water were set out for the
entire table. Honestly it seems like a tremendous waste of water
and adding unnecessary items to be washed.
That said on my first read through I thought they were making
those remarks *in* the DIL’s house which would be wildly rude.
Doing it at home in private isn’t particularly kind but it isn’t
rude in the same way it would be in my (mistaken) scenario.
#Post#: 60645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: Hmmm Date: November 23, 2020, 1:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SureJan link=topic=1924.msg60643#msg60643
date=1606157106]
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1924.msg60628#msg60628
date=1606141446]
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
You NEVER joke around with others about the idiosyncrasies of
your family members with others? Remembering to set out both
napkins and glasses of water during a meal is far less "proper
table settings". It's the basic items needed to have a meal.
[/quote]
This actually had me shaking my head because in my entire life,
no matter how formal the meal, I’ve never been to a meal at
someone’s house where glasses of water were set out for the
entire table. Honestly it seems like a tremendous waste of water
and adding unnecessary items to be washed.
That said on my first read through I thought they were making
those remarks *in* the DIL’s house which would be wildly rude.
Doing it at home in private isn’t particularly kind but it isn’t
rude in the same way it would be in my (mistaken) scenario.
[/quote]
Maybe we are misaligned here because water is the default drink
in our home and in many of the homes of my family and friends.
If wine is served, then water is still offered as part of the
meal.
Are you thinking that the water is in addition to another drink?
Or is a drink not a normal part of your meal?
#Post#: 60679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: oogyda Date: November 24, 2020, 7:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1924.msg60628#msg60628
date=1606141446]
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
You NEVER joke around with others about the idiosyncrasies of
your family members with others? Remembering to set out both
napkins and glasses of water during a meal is far less "proper
table settings". It's the basic items needed to have a meal.
[/quote]
I disagree that glasses of water and napkins are the basic items
needed to have a meal. Food. That's it. That's a meal.
Growing up, my on-the-lower-end-of-the-socio-economic-ladder
family rarely used napkins. Oh, the horrors!!! When I was
feeding a family, we also rarely used napkins. Even now, when i
have the kids and grandkids for dinner, we're using paper towels
if things get messy.
For holiday meals or special occasions, we go all "proper" with
cloth napkins and glasses of water alongside the glasses of
wind, iced tea, cola and kool-aid.
So, to me, putting out glasses of water and napkins is "proper"
or at least more formal than what i do for a normal meal.
In regards to the bolded: I wish I could say that I NEVER do or
NEVER have. I try not to. But, I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT criticize,
jokingly or not, my children's partners. Having been on the
receiving end of that from before DH and I married, I have been
steadfast in not doing it myself.
#Post#: 60684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: Hmmm Date: November 24, 2020, 9:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60679#msg60679
date=1606224824]
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1924.msg60628#msg60628
date=1606141446]
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
You NEVER joke around with others about the idiosyncrasies of
your family members with others? Remembering to set out both
napkins and glasses of water during a meal is far less "proper
table settings". It's the basic items needed to have a meal.
[/quote]
I disagree that glasses of water and napkins are the basic items
needed to have a meal. Food. That's it. That's a meal.
Growing up, my on-the-lower-end-of-the-socio-economic-ladder
family rarely used napkins. Oh, the horrors!!! When I was
feeding a family, we also rarely used napkins. Even now, when i
have the kids and grandkids for dinner, we're using paper towels
if things get messy.
For holiday meals or special occasions, we go all "proper" with
cloth napkins and glasses of water alongside the glasses of
wind, iced tea, cola and kool-aid.
So, to me, putting out glasses of water and napkins is "proper"
or at least more formal than what i do for a normal meal.
In regards to the bolded: I wish I could say that I NEVER do or
NEVER have. I try not to. But, I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT criticize,
jokingly or not, my children's partners. Having been on the
receiving end of that from before DH and I married, I have been
steadfast in not doing it myself.
[/quote]
I admire your commitment to never criticizing family members,
even in private with your spouse. My spouse and I chat and joke
about our family members actions on occasion. This includes our
kid's, our parents, and siblings and our kid's SO's. But the
conversations are between us and not shared with others. It's
not mean spirited but just chat. Just yesterday, DH was
commenting about his sister's extensive collection of expensive
handbags and shoes while calling him to complain about the cost
of new tires for her car that she can't afford. I mean, who
wouldn't joke about someone buying a $2000 purse last month and
then complain they couldn't afford $800 for tires this month and
wanting to know what he thought of buying retreaded tires?
But on the napkin topic, I literally can't remember the last
time I ate something, even a snack at my desk, without at least
a paper towel to use as a napkin. If setting a table for an
informal meal, some type of napkin (cloth or paper) is going to
be set out with the utensils.
This is an etiquette site. Providing some type of napkin when
eating is basic etiquette. I'm sorry if that seems to feel like
I am attacking you personally. I felt your response to the OP
criticizing her chat with her husband was much more of a
personal attack.
#Post#: 60686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: Rose Red Date: November 24, 2020, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My family is very informal. We grab our own drinks and napkins
(or just stick a pile of napkins on the table).
But with company, we set a nice table and ask everybody what
they want to drink in addition to having pitchers of water and
hot tea.
So I totally understand a 6 year old only experienced informal
meals. His parents will hopefully cross the formal bridge when
it comes.
#Post#: 60693--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: SureJan Date: November 24, 2020, 12:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1924.msg60645#msg60645
date=1606158321]
[quote author=SureJan link=topic=1924.msg60643#msg60643
date=1606157106]
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1924.msg60628#msg60628
date=1606141446]
[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1924.msg60516#msg60516
date=1605875411]
I feel sorry for the DIL who is being ridiculed behind her back
for less than strictly proper table settings in an age where so
many people have more relaxed attitudes about dinnertime with
family.
[/quote]
You NEVER joke around with others about the idiosyncrasies of
your family members with others? Remembering to set out both
napkins and glasses of water during a meal is far less "proper
table settings". It's the basic items needed to have a meal.
[/quote]
This actually had me shaking my head because in my entire life,
no matter how formal the meal, I’ve never been to a meal at
someone’s house where glasses of water were set out for the
entire table. Honestly it seems like a tremendous waste of water
and adding unnecessary items to be washed.
That said on my first read through I thought they were making
those remarks *in* the DIL’s house which would be wildly rude.
Doing it at home in private isn’t particularly kind but it isn’t
rude in the same way it would be in my (mistaken) scenario.
[/quote]
Maybe we are misaligned here because water is the default drink
in our home and in many of the homes of my family and friends.
If wine is served, then water is still offered as part of the
meal.
Are you thinking that the water is in addition to another drink?
Or is a drink not a normal part of your meal?
[/quote]
Water is my personal default drink as well, but the way it was
phrased made it seem like they were equating a “correct” table
to a restaurant setting or wedding reception where everyone gets
water automatically in addition to what they ordered for
themselves.
#Post#: 60700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: Soop Date: November 24, 2020, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Rose Red link=topic=1924.msg60686#msg60686
date=1606232779]
My family is very informal. We grab our own drinks and napkins
(or just stick a pile of napkins on the table).
But with company, we set a nice table and ask everybody what
they want to drink in addition to having pitchers of water and
hot tea.
So I totally understand a 6 year old only experienced informal
meals. His parents will hopefully cross the formal bridge when
it comes.
[/quote]
Growing up, my family was very informal for regular dinners. We
would serve ourselves in the kitchen, grab cutlery, a paper
towel and a drink and head for the table. The table was only set
for holiday dinners or when there were adult visitors.
#Post#: 60758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Did I lose a teaching moment?
By: Lula Date: November 26, 2020, 11:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Even "formal" holiday dinners in my family have always been
"everybody line up in the kitchen and grab your own everything."
It's hard for me to imagine it being any other way. Certainly
cuts down on the dish washing load to have everyone take only
those items they're actually going to use.
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