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#Post#: 58265--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Rose Red Date: September 30, 2020, 7:40 pm
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[quote author=Lilipons link=topic=1877.msg58264#msg58264
date=1601512102]
It’s a bit off to the side but I do remember an little piece of
poetry by Edward Lear.
‘I eat my peas with honey.
I’ve done it all my life.
It may look rather funny,
But they don’t slide off my knife.’
Ainb’t table manners fun?
[/quote]
That brings me back. My fourth grade teacher had us memorize one
small poem each week and this was the first. This is the only
one I still remember after all these years.
#Post#: 58268--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: gramma dishes Date: September 30, 2020, 7:57 pm
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[quote author=Luci link=topic=1877.msg58249#msg58249
date=1601501913]
The etiquette rule i never would obey is putting my napkin on my
seat. Sitting in multiple vehicles and chairs, we wouldn’t want
to transfer that unknown filth onto my napkin.
Some I agree with, but I disagree with most of the suggestions.
[/quote]
Interestingly I agree with you but for the opposite reason. My
dining room has upholstered chairs and I would be upset if
someone got a lot of food 'particles', whether that be grease or
salad dressing or whatever they had blotted from their mouths on
my chair seats. Some of that stuff would have to be
professionally cleaned to get it out of the fabric. Fortunately
no one has ever, ever done that!
#Post#: 58283--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Aleko Date: October 1, 2020, 2:14 am
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I’m puzzled by the whole napkin-on-chair thing. My parents
started taking their kids to respectable hotels and restaurants
very young; they taught us proper table manners and expected us
to use them. So I’ve been dining in civilised British
company for over 50 years and at no time have I been advised to
put my napkin on my chair if I have to leave the table, nor seen
anyone else do so. I naturally put my napkin down on the right
of my plate, and that’s what I’ve seen other people
do. Maybe this is another transatlantic divide, as with cutlery
handling?
As for “Today, many diners only find the silverware they
actually need”: as far as I know it has always been a faux
pas on the part of the host to lay out unnecessary cutlery, and
a bad one too: it implies that either they don’t really
know what’s proper to use for what they’re serving
and are laying everything they can think of just in case, or
they simply want to flaunt the amount of silver they own, or
they’re deliberately trying to trip up guests they suspect
of being parvenus. Not a good look, whichever way.
Edited to add:
I just went and followed some of the links given in that article
to other pages on their site, and was amused to read this one:
HTML https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/15-guest-mistakes-frustrate-dinner-party-hosts/
- from which we learn that Mistake #5 is: “Eating Before
Everyone is Served.”
“When the dinner begins and dishes are still being passed,
there’s nothing more frustrating than a guest who’s
already dug in to the entree while everyone else is still
dishing up. Even though it might be tempting to have a bite,
don’t until the table has settled. As a general rule of
thumb, wait until the host has started eating to pick up your
fork.“
And Mistake #7 is: “Using Your Phone.”
We’re fairly sure that Miss Manners would be a proponent
for our no-phones rule. When you’re in someone
else’s home, socializing is more important than checking
your texts. Even though you might be half-expecting a text from
the babysitter, put your phone on silent and tuck it away for
the duration of the meal. If you are truly compelled to use it
while others are still eating, excuse yourself to the bathroom
and check it on your way there.
:-) :-) :-)
BTW, I’m somewhat startled by their Mistake #6:
“Allowing the Host’s Glass to Sit Empty“. The
writer claims that for a guest to offer to pour wine into the
host’s glass if he notices it’s empty is a
super-polite gesture that makes the host feel appreciated. Not
in any household I’ve ever dined in! If the host has
charge of refilling glasses and doesn’t refill his own,
it’s a reasonable guess that he either doesn’t want
any more himself or is worried that it might run out and is very
rightly keeping what there is for his guests. Don’t
interfere!
[quote]It may look rather funny,
But they don’t slide off my knife.’[/quote]
I’ve also known this poem as long as I can remember, but
in the version I learned the second couplet was:
[quote]It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps them on the knife.’[/quote]
#Post#: 58292--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: vintagegal Date: October 1, 2020, 7:56 am
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I wouldn't want to eat with the people who wrote that article.
They sound like a bunch of louts. I can picture them all, elbows
on table, engrossed in their phones, eating as soon as they get
the food, biting and tearing the bread (OK with soft bread but
crusty rolls can be a problem), kids coming and going at will.
No thanks.
How about talking with food in your mouth, is that OK now too?
#Post#: 58294--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Hmmm Date: October 1, 2020, 8:14 am
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[quote author=Lilipons link=topic=1877.msg58254#msg58254
date=1601502582]
This will be an interesting thread.
Years ago, in a TV news article about teaching children table
manners, it was suggested to make an ‘OK’ sign under the table
with both hands. The left hand will form a lower case ‘B’ .
That’s where your bread goes. The right hand forms a lower case
‘D’. That’s the place for your drink.
Many times there have been some confusion at round tables about
whose bread plate is which. This little hint clears everything
up lickety-split.
There are different ideas about elbows on the table.
Originally, the rule was put in force because people would prop
their elbows on the table and raise their arms with a knife in
one hand and a fork in the other. The elbows
would then become fulcrua for cranes that shoveled food into the
mouth. these days, elbows on the table are more likely to be
seen with forearms lying flat while engaged in conversation and
raising a drink to one’s lips. I think that’s fine.
[/quote]
At a session given many decades ago in college, the presenter
used "runnies on the right, lumpies on the left" to figure out
bread and water glass placement. For some reason, that stuck
with me. I never again attended a meal at a large round table
and wondered which bread plate or water glass was mine.
I of course used this in my own home. Took me till my DS and DD
were well into their teens to understand why the few times a
year I'd have them setting the table with soup spoons they'd
always end up on the wrong side and we'd do the "but that's what
you always said" and I'd be "No, I've never said soup spoons go
on the left". It never occured to me it could be interpreted to
include soup spoons too.
#Post#: 58303--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Limmershin Date: October 1, 2020, 12:06 pm
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[quote author=Lilipons link=topic=1877.msg58264#msg58264
date=1601512102]
It’s a bit off to the side but I do remember an little piece of
poetry by Edward Lear.
‘I eat my peas with honey.
I’ve done it all my life.
It may look rather funny,
But they don’t slide off my knife.’
Ainb’t table manners fun?
[/quote]
Not really germane to the topic -- and I know I can be a most
annoying pedant and nitpicker (and then wonder why I irritate
people ???); but in my perception, Edward Lear is often very
funny -- but in a different way from this: his stuff has a very
different feel. I gather that the verse is most often
attributed to Ogden Nash; though nobody seems 100% sure about
its origin.
#Post#: 58308--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: oogyda Date: October 1, 2020, 1:13 pm
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[quote author=BrownEyedGirl link=topic=1877.msg58263#msg58263
date=1601511204]
I don't know if it was just me, but the whole tone of the
article was kind of rude. The way it was written seemed to say
'if you still do anything on this list, you're wrong.' So if I
choose to not have my cell phone out at the table, I'm wrong?
If I choose not to put my elbows on the table, I'm wrong?
Pretty much the whole list irritated me.
[/quote]
No. It's not just you as it strikes me as being kind of rude
and very irritating as well. I think it's a list written to fit
her own circumstances and social circle. And it may be
perfectly suitable to her and the people she dines with. I know
my own family and good friends are very relaxed for our
ordinary, everyday meals, but all of us can follow "knife and
fork protocol" in more formal settings. I think it's important
to have some "universal rules" that one can use when in
different and/or unknown company. Oh, wait!!!! That's what
etiquette rules are for!!
#Post#: 58317--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: lowspark Date: October 1, 2020, 3:31 pm
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11. Servers waiting to remove plates till all diners are
finished. She just seems to indicate the bussers and servers are
busy so are picking it up at their convenience.
This one is controversial. I prefer that they wait till all
diners are finished, as it seems like the diners who are still
eating are being rushed.
But I know that some people don't like to have a plate sitting
in front of them with the residual detritus once they are done
eating.
I really hate it when servers, often repeatedly, try to clear my
plate before I'm done eating (or, for that matter, the plate of
anyone at my table before they are done). If there is food on my
plate that means I'm not done. If I am done, and want it
cleared, I'm happy to indicate that to the server. My sister has
a theory that they don't have enough dishware and need to clear
quickly in order to reuse. But in any case, they should
absolutely ask first, instead of just reaching for it! I've
wanted to slap them back sometimes!!
Oh, and the phrase, "at their convenience"... ::) ::) ::)
I'm not eating out for the convenience of the bussers. I'm
eating out for the pleasant experience and good food.
#Post#: 58360--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: mime Date: October 2, 2020, 11:03 am
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[quote author=oogyda link=topic=1877.msg58308#msg58308
date=1601576013]
[quote author=BrownEyedGirl link=topic=1877.msg58263#msg58263
date=1601511204]
I don't know if it was just me, but the whole tone of the
article was kind of rude. The way it was written seemed to say
'if you still do anything on this list, you're wrong.' So if I
choose to not have my cell phone out at the table, I'm wrong?
If I choose not to put my elbows on the table, I'm wrong?
Pretty much the whole list irritated me.
[/quote]
No. It's not just you as it strikes me as being kind of rude
and very irritating as well. I think it's a list written to fit
her own circumstances and social circle. And it may be
perfectly suitable to her and the people she dines with. I know
my own family and good friends are very relaxed for our
ordinary, everyday meals, but all of us can follow "knife and
fork protocol" in more formal settings. I think it's important
to have some "universal rules" that one can use when in
different and/or unknown company. Oh, wait!!!! That's what
etiquette rules are for!!
[/quote]
Excellent point!
When I go to a Red Lobster type of place with my brother, we
might pull up pictures on our phones or eat with elbows on the
table, or even swap plates to try each other's food. We have our
own special etiquette and nobody is uncomfortable or causing
offense.
When I go to professional conferences and am seated for fancy
dinner with 7 colleagues who I've never met, it's a different
story. Elbows are off the table, phones are hidden, people don't
start eating until we all have food in front of us. ...and I
definitely don't offer to share my asparagus!
As you say, we're following these conventions because it can
make others feel comfortable and welcomed in a new setting. I
think there's also an element of "ooh I'm at a fancy dinner! I'm
going to pull out my fancy manners!" Almost feeling like a
little girl playing tea party. Or is that just me?
It really does seem like the author wrote from their own
social-circle perspective. I'm willing to bet that she puts on
her fancy manners in a more formal setting.
BTW, Something I love about my colleagues,who most often remain
strangers after we've shared our meal: even when someone forgets
their perfect manners, we all just roll with it. No big deal.
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