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#Post#: 58239--------------------------------------------------
So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Hmmm Date: September 30, 2020, 2:47 pm
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This article showed up on a list for me today. It's about a year
old, but it annoyed the crap out of me.
HTML https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/dining-etiquette-rules/
I get that it is an opinion piece but it definitely is not
written like that. A few of the declarations annoyed me so much
that I'll probably never read another article from this site
again. For those who don't want to click on the link, here's the
etiquette rules the author has deemed outdated and that "no one"
follows any more.
1. No need to turn off cell phones: Using them while at the
table is fine, especially if for photographing or interacting
with social media.
2. Buttering bread one bite at a time: today convenience is
King!
3. Passing salt and pepper together (no reason given other than
shakers at restaurants are dirty)
4. Serving women first: gender no longer matters
5. Setting tables with tons of utensils: Today, we only set out
what is needed, sorry fish knife. (this is when I knew she had
no knowledge because you never are supposed to set out
silverware that will not be used. Has anyone ever set out a fish
knife or an oyster fork or even a salad fork if those courses
weren't being served?)
6. Waiting till everyone is served: When dining with family and
friends- dig in!
7. Passing dishes clockwise: (no reason given or alternative
given. Just seemed to be listed so she could have a reason to
link to casserole dishes.
8. Leaving your napkin on the chair if you leave the table - OK,
this one I don't have an issue with because my old Emily Post
always said to put the napkin beside your plate, but I know Miss
Manner's has indicated to put in the chair. So if beside the
plate wins, I'm all for it.
9. Keeping elbows off the table: she doesn't say why it is now
allowed just that it is.
10. Expecting Men to pay: I have no issues with this one either.
11. Servers waiting to remove plates till all diners are
finished. She just seems to indicate the bussers and servers are
busy so are picking it up at their convenience.
12. Waiting to season food. I also don't have a real issue with
this one. I know I want salt and pepper on my eggs. I don't need
to taste them to confirm.
13. Placing utensils on plate to indicate you are finished: To
me, this just sounds like so many people don't know it so we
should just get rid of it.
14. Serving from the left & clearing from the right: I do agree
that in many restaurants (hello booths) it is not possible. But
I think when it is possible, it should be followed.
15. Waiting for the hostess: It seems our dining is now so
relaxed that we shouldn't even wait for the hostess or host
before we begin digging in.
16. Sipping from the same spot on your glass: I still feel like
if you are using heavy lipstick, you should try to follow the
rule.
17. Leaving a bite on your plate: I'm ok with this one going
away as there are so many different rules for different
cultures. And in reality, no one should be paying attention to
your plate anyway.
18. Wearing proper attire: Per writer, dress codes are gone
anyway. I really dislike getting rid of this one. I so dislike
going to a restaurant and being seated next to tank top, ball
cap and flipflop wearing men at a nice restaurant. Yes,
behavior, including clothing choice, does impact the overall
feel of a restaurant.
19. Ordering the same number of courses. I agree that this one
is long gone and it is ok for it to be.
20. Kids asking to be excused: Don't know why the author feels
this one should go away, only that today kids are free to do
whatever they please.
What are your thoughts? Do you agree that we should let these
etiquette rules die away?
#Post#: 58241--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: TurtleIScream Date: September 30, 2020, 3:34 pm
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Some I don’t care about, but it will always be rude to start
eating before the host!
Passing dishes clockwise - the direction doesn’t matter, but
being consistent makes sure everything gets around to everyone.
#Post#: 58244--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Aleko Date: September 30, 2020, 4:16 pm
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[quote]Passing dishes clockwise - the direction doesn’t matter,
but being consistent makes sure everything gets around to
everyone.[/quote]
Precisely: and that’s why we need rules. A point that was
brought home to me very forcibly some years ago in Spain, at a
lunch for historic reenactors of half a dozen different
nationalities. It turned out that in one or two of the
reenactors’ home countries the side plate with the roll is
placed to the right side of the plate; the resulting fracas,
with several people left withoit any bread and piteously
appealing to the company, was embarrassing for everyone.
#Post#: 58249--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Luci Date: September 30, 2020, 4:38 pm
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The etiquette rule i never would obey is putting my napkin on my
seat. Sitting in multiple vehicles and chairs, we wouldn’t want
to transfer that unknown filth onto my napkin.
Some I agree with, but I disagree with most of the suggestions.
#Post#: 58252--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Gellchom Date: September 30, 2020, 4:47 pm
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My reactions are pretty similar to yours, Hmmm (surprise!).
The one I especially hate is "ladies first" service, especially
if it's a large table. At a small table, it's only polite to
wait until everyone is served (or if eating family style, at
least has some food on their plate while things are being
passed), in which case it's just pointless sexism. At a large
table, though, particularly if the food is hot, I believe you
are supposed to start when the host says "please start," or, if
there's no host present at the table (like at a wedding
reception) then when your section of the table is served, which
makes sense, because then you're not eating next to someone who
hasn't got anything yet. So "ladies first" is annoying: if the
seating is alternate by sex, or close to it, then I'm not going
to feel comfortable starting in on my plate while the guys to my
right and left have nothing. But this means that the women's
food gets cold while they wait for the men to be served. Some
courtesy to "ladies" that is -- nothing like cold soup to make
me feel special! And of course "the man always pays," but I
don't think that was ever a rule of etiquette. Hosts pay.
I also agree about dress codes. It is fun to dress up for a
special evening someplace nice, like the theater or a concert or
a fancy restaurant, and it kind of takes the shine off it if
others around you look like they're dressed to work out or
grocery shop. The other night my husband and I went out for a
very delayed anniversary dinner, at a very fancy restaurant that
has outside seating now. I was certainly way overdressed; I
ordinarily would never wear a cocktail dress to a restaurant on
a Saturday night. But like many of us, I haven't had an
occasion to dress up for many months now, and this was the
biggest occasion in the foreseeable future, so I figured what
the hell: I'd wear my slinky red lace dress, just with more
tailored accessories than for a black tie event. And it was
fun! But it did surprise and disappoint us that so many of the
people there were in jeans. I mean, I was pleasing myself being
a little overdressed, so I can only criticize so much. But it's
a very nice, high end restaurant on a Saturday night. Even if
you don't care yourself, why not help keep the atmosphere formal
for other patrons and for the restaurant, that wants to keep a
certain ambience? There are plenty of restaurants to go to in
jeans.
#Post#: 58254--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Lilipons Date: September 30, 2020, 4:49 pm
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This will be an interesting thread.
Years ago, in a TV news article about teaching children table
manners, it was suggested to make an ‘OK’ sign under the table
with both hands. The left hand will form a lower case ‘B’ .
That’s where your bread goes. The right hand forms a lower case
‘D’. That’s the place for your drink.
Many times there have been some confusion at round tables about
whose bread plate is which. This little hint clears everything
up lickety-split.
There are different ideas about elbows on the table.
Originally, the rule was put in force because people would prop
their elbows on the table and raise their arms with a knife in
one hand and a fork in the other. The elbows
would then become fulcrua for cranes that shoveled food into the
mouth. these days, elbows on the table are more likely to be
seen with forearms lying flat while engaged in conversation and
raising a drink to one’s lips. I think that’s fine.
#Post#: 58259--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: TootsNYC Date: September 30, 2020, 5:37 pm
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[quote]15. Waiting for the hostess: It seems our dining is now
so relaxed that we shouldn't even wait for the hostess or host
before we begin digging in.
[/quote]
This is one of those things that annoys the heck out of my with
my ILs' family.
The hostess never does sit down, and it took me years to be OK
with it. If you waited until the hostess sat down, you'd never
eat.
Though there was the year that most people were still standing
(hostess and both her girls), and some of the first course was
set on the table, but other foods were being placed on the table
and one older uncle just started eating. It seemed so rude and
inconsiderate--but I also think that he was just used to
starting to eat while his wife or his hostess at other family
events was still bustling around.
#Post#: 58260--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: TootsNYC Date: September 30, 2020, 5:40 pm
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[quote]5. Setting tables with tons of utensils: Today, we only
set out what is needed, sorry fish knife. (this is when I knew
she had no knowledge because you never are supposed to set out
silverware that will not be used. Has anyone ever set out a fish
knife or an oyster fork or even a salad fork if those courses
weren't being served?)
[/quote]
This phrase reminds me of the revelation I had about the guests'
anxiety about "which fork to use."
The responsibility is not on the guest. It's on the HOST.
The host is supposed to only set out the silverware to be used,
and they are to set it in the order it will be used.
The guest only has to pick up the one that's easiest to reach,
which is the one on the outside. All the rest of the work is
supposed to be done by the host.
If you use the wrong fork, it's the host's fault.
#Post#: 58263--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: BrownEyedGirl Date: September 30, 2020, 7:13 pm
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I don't know if it was just me, but the whole tone of the
article was kind of rude. The way it was written seemed to say
'if you still do anything on this list, you're wrong.' So if I
choose to not have my cell phone out at the table, I'm wrong?
If I choose not to put my elbows on the table, I'm wrong?
Pretty much the whole list irritated me.
#Post#: 58264--------------------------------------------------
Re: So who gets to decide with etiqutte rules are outdated?
By: Lilipons Date: September 30, 2020, 7:28 pm
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It’s a bit off to the side but I do remember an little piece of
poetry by Edward Lear.
‘I eat my peas with honey.
I’ve done it all my life.
It may look rather funny,
But they don’t slide off my knife.’
Ainb’t table manners fun?
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