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#Post#: 63577--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: spunkyboy08 Date: February 12, 2021, 4:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Contrarian link=topic=1871.msg63500#msg63500
date=1612902853]
Calling someone a Karen is name calling. Calling someone a
special snowflake is name calling.
Sitting around laughing at memes of women screaming at clerks is
a bit weird.
It’s fine that you don’t agree with me, but saying that someone
was being aggressive with a cashier is describing a behaviour.
Calling someone a Karen is name calling. It insinuates the
behaviour is a never changing thing, it eternally labels the
person so they are no longer looked as individuals but as the
label they have been given.
It’s funny how some people who get upset if the word “girl” or
“lady” is used, love making “Karen” jokes. I just don’t
understand the logic.
Most people have a word that they think is horribly offensive
and then has a list of words that they believe are fair game and
“a joke”, that are someone else’s horribly offensive word.
This is just another one of those words. A label. It’s name
calling. Honestly, I don’t see how you would use an actual name
to call someone a thing and not call it name calling.
[/quote]
So, how would you describe this behavior if you saw someone of
either gender acting like this?
#Post#: 63578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: spunkyboy08 Date: February 12, 2021, 4:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1871.msg63517#msg63517
date=1612970001]
[quote author=chigger link=topic=1871.msg63503#msg63503
date=1612908292]
Jem, this is the second time you have posted on this thread
saying you and your friends use it in a "lighthearted way". You
have never seen the many, many headlines about all the rascist
Karens"! There is nothing I can say to make you realize how it
makes a lot of us feel, but that's okay, because you don't mean
it as a slur, you're just being lighthearted. So it's all okay.
[/quote]
This is not a term my friends or I personally use frequently. My
point was this: "...it is describing an over-the-top reaction as
opposed to labeling a person as being 100% over-the-top all the
time."
I am not saying no one should be offended. Different people will
react differently. My point was only that not all people view
the term and its use the same way.
[/quote]
So, how would you describe this behavior if you saw someone of
either gender acting like this?
#Post#: 63580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: chigger Date: February 12, 2021, 5:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=spunkyboy08 link=topic=1871.msg63578#msg63578
date=1613169342]
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1871.msg63517#msg63517
date=1612970001]
[quote author=chigger link=topic=1871.msg63503#msg63503
date=1612908292]
Jem, this is the second time you have posted on this thread
saying you and your friends use it in a "lighthearted way". You
have never seen the many, many headlines about all the rascist
Karens"! There is nothing I can say to make you realize how it
makes a lot of us feel, but that's okay, because you don't mean
it as a slur, you're just being lighthearted. So it's all okay.
[/quote]
This is not a term my friends or I personally use frequently. My
point was this: "...it is describing an over-the-top reaction as
opposed to labeling a person as being 100% over-the-top all the
time."
I am not saying no one should be offended. Different people will
react differently. My point was only that not all people view
the term and its use the same way.
[/quote]
So, how would you describe this behavior if you saw someone of
either gender acting like this?
[/quote]
Not all people view N**** as offensive, not all people view
S**** as offensive. The list of slurs can go on and on and on,
and there is always a group of people that don't find it
offensive! Throw in B ****, Cu** and a few others that we women
are called, and add my name to the list, because now it means
something horrible.
ETA: The term "A Karen" has been appropriated by the media in
the last year or so, and it no longer means what you, Jem,
thinks it means.
#Post#: 63589--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: holly firestorm Date: February 13, 2021, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=spunkyboy08 link=topic=1871.msg63578#msg63578
date=1613169342]
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1871.msg63517#msg63517
date=1612970001]
[quote author=chigger link=topic=1871.msg63503#msg63503
date=1612908292]
Jem, this is the second time you have posted on this thread
saying you and your friends use it in a "lighthearted way". You
have never seen the many, many headlines about all the rascist
Karens"! There is nothing I can say to make you realize how it
makes a lot of us feel, but that's okay, because you don't mean
it as a slur, you're just being lighthearted. So it's all okay.
[/quote]
This is not a term my friends or I personally use frequently. My
point was this: "...it is describing an over-the-top reaction as
opposed to labeling a person as being 100% over-the-top all the
time."
I am not saying no one should be offended. Different people will
react differently. My point was only that not all people view
the term and its use the same way.
[/quote]
So, how would you describe this behavior if you saw someone of
either gender acting like this?
[/quote]
That's the point! If a white woman in the supermarket mask
you'll see a meme calling her "Karen" go viral by the end of the
day. If a man in the supermarket makes a fuss about not wearing
a mask in the supermarket, he's just called an idiot or
a**hole...or maskhole. Side note: almost every single person
I've seen refusing to wear a mask where it's required is male.
One was named Orlando but, I'll bet none were named Karen.
If a white woman calls the cops on a group of noisy people she's
called "Karen." If a black woman does it she's praised for not
suffering fools gladly or just thin skinned and picky. If a man
does it, he's also just called thin skinned and picky.
If a white woman calls someone of a different ethnic background
by a racist epithet, she's called "Karen." If a man does it,
he's just called 'racist."
If a white woman calls a manager because she's been treated like
crap, overcharged or etc. and the sales associate won't do
anything about, she's called "Karen." If a man does it, or a
woman of color, they're called "an informed consumer," and
rarely are they accused of having an "over the top" reaction at
all.
#Post#: 63594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: Isisnin Date: February 13, 2021, 6:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=holly firestorm link=topic=1871.msg63589#msg63589
date=1613250205]
(quotes edited out for length)
That's the point! If a white woman in the supermarket mask
you'll see a meme calling her "Karen" go viral by the end of the
day. If a man in the supermarket makes a fuss about not wearing
a mask in the supermarket, he's just called an idiot or
a**hole...or maskhole. Side note: almost every single person
I've seen refusing to wear a mask where it's required is male.
One was named Orlando but, I'll bet none were named Karen.
If a white woman calls the cops on a group of noisy people she's
called "Karen." If a black woman does it she's praised for not
suffering fools gladly or just thin skinned and picky. If a man
does it, he's also just called thin skinned and picky.
If a white woman calls someone of a different ethnic background
by a racist epithet, she's called "Karen." If a man does it,
he's just called 'racist."
If a white woman calls a manager because she's been treated like
crap, overcharged or etc. and the sales associate won't do
anything about, she's called "Karen." If a man does it, or a
woman of color, they're called "an informed consumer," and
rarely are they accused of having an "over the top" reaction at
all.
[/quote]
Agree that only women are called a "derogatory" female name when
they are called out on media for their bad behavior. Men are not
called a derogatory male name when they behave badly. Their
behavior is actually described. It's as if the male gender is
being respected by not using a male name derogatorily while the
female gender has been disrespected (in addition to women named
Karen) by using a female name.
However, using a male name to degenerate a man's behavior
wouldn't be a good kind of equality because calling people names
is immature and crude behavior. Better to just describe the
person's behavior. Entitled, selfish,and abusive would do it.
I've done that (though I'm not above going straight to
"whateverhole.").
In regards to one race being called out for their bad behavior
and other races not so much, I don't agree. I've seen different
races called out by media.
In regards to the sales associate example, that opens up a whole
rant from me as I work as a sales associate. For this thread,
suffice to say we have nowhere near the power or ability
customers think we have.
Regarding customers who call a manager because they don't get
what they want from the cashier, I haven't noticed on social
media whether or not one group is criticized more while other
groups are lauded but I'm not on social media much. But as an
FYI, store employees don't think that way. We experience so many
entitled, abusive people that we know full well they run the
spectrum.
#Post#: 63621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: holly firestorm Date: February 14, 2021, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Isisnin link=topic=1871.msg63594#msg63594
date=1613263189]
[quote author=holly firestorm link=topic=1871.msg63589#msg63589
date=1613250205]
(quotes edited out for length)
That's the point! If a white woman in the supermarket mask
you'll see a meme calling her "Karen" go viral by the end of the
day. If a man in the supermarket makes a fuss about not wearing
a mask in the supermarket, he's just called an idiot or
a**hole...or maskhole. Side note: almost every single person
I've seen refusing to wear a mask where it's required is male.
One was named Orlando but, I'll bet none were named Karen.
If a white woman calls the cops on a group of noisy people she's
called "Karen." If a black woman does it she's praised for not
suffering fools gladly or just thin skinned and picky. If a man
does it, he's also just called thin skinned and picky.
If a white woman calls someone of a different ethnic background
by a racist epithet, she's called "Karen." If a man does it,
he's just called 'racist."
If a white woman calls a manager because she's been treated like
crap, overcharged or etc. and the sales associate won't do
anything about, she's called "Karen." If a man does it, or a
woman of color, they're called "an informed consumer," and
rarely are they accused of having an "over the top" reaction at
all.
[/quote]
Agree that only women are called a "derogatory" female name when
they are called out on media for their bad behavior. Men are not
called a derogatory male name when they behave badly. Their
behavior is actually described. It's as if the male gender is
being respected by not using a male name derogatorily while the
female gender has been disrespected (in addition to women named
Karen) by using a female name.
However, using a male name to degenerate a man's behavior
wouldn't be a good kind of equality because calling people names
is immature and crude behavior. Better to just describe the
person's behavior. Entitled, selfish,and abusive would do it.
I've done that (though I'm not above going straight to
"whateverhole.").
In regards to one race being called out for their bad behavior
and other races not so much, I don't agree. I've seen different
races called out by media.
In regards to the sales associate example, that opens up a whole
rant from me as I work as a sales associate. For this thread,
suffice to say we have nowhere near the power or ability
customers think we have.
Regarding customers who call a manager because they don't get
what they want from the cashier, I haven't noticed on social
media whether or not one group is criticized more while other
groups are lauded but I'm not on social media much. But as an
FYI, store employees don't think that way. We experience so many
entitled, abusive people that we know full well they run the
spectrum.
[/quote]
Agreed that we don't need stereotypical insults at all. If the
person is being smeg for brains...you don't have to call them a
Karen or Kevin if they're white, a LaToya or LeRoy if they're
black, a Conchita or Carlitos if they're Latinx etc. etc. Just
call them "that smeg for brains!" or "whatever hole."
Whether you see people of other races being called out for bad
behavior or not, when was the last time you saw anyone but a
middle aged or older white woman called a Karen.
That wasn't what I said. I didn't say 'if they don't get what
they want.' If I thought that I might call the manager, but I
would make damned sure that both the manager AND cashier knew
that I appreciate the cashier did the most they could for me and
simply, like you said, didn't have the power to do more...but,
maybe the manager did.
And a last PS: I always thank the sales
associate/cashier/customer service person for all their
help...unless they treated me badly...and I DON'T mean they said
'no' to me when the should have said 'no.' I have had sales
associates/receptionists/customer service people etc. who DO
treat me, as a customer, like I am an idiot who should be
thrilled to give them my money whether they're service/product
is worth anything or not...but, not many.
#Post#: 63633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: Isisnin Date: February 15, 2021, 11:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote][quote author=holly firestorm
link=topic=1871.msg63621#msg63621 date=1613346023]
[quote author=Isisnin link=topic=1871.msg63594#msg63594
date=1613263189]
(quotes edited out for length)
[/quote]
Agree that only women are called a "derogatory" female name when
they are called out on media for their bad behavior. Men are not
called a derogatory male name when they behave badly. Their
behavior is actually described. It's as if the male gender is
being respected by not using a male name derogatorily while the
female gender has been disrespected (in addition to women named
Karen) by using a female name.
However, using a male name to degenerate a man's behavior
wouldn't be a good kind of equality because calling people names
is immature and crude behavior. Better to just describe the
person's behavior. Entitled, selfish,and abusive would do it.
I've done that (though I'm not above going straight to
"whateverhole.").
In regards to one race being called out for their bad behavior
and other races not so much, I don't agree. I've seen different
races called out by media.
In regards to the sales associate example, that opens up a whole
rant from me as I work as a sales associate. For this thread,
suffice to say we have nowhere near the power or ability
customers think we have.
Regarding customers who call a manager because they don't get
what they want from the cashier, I haven't noticed on social
media whether or not one group is criticized more while other
groups are lauded but I'm not on social media much. But as an
FYI, store employees don't think that way. We experience so many
entitled, abusive people that we know full well they run the
spectrum.
[/quote]
Agreed that we don't need stereotypical insults at all. If the
person is being smeg for brains...you don't have to call them a
Karen or Kevin if they're white, a LaToya or LeRoy if they're
black, a Conchita or Carlitos if they're Latinx etc. etc. Just
call them "that smeg for brains!" or "whatever hole."
Whether you see people of other races being called out for bad
behavior or not, when was the last time you saw anyone but a
middle aged or older white woman called a Karen.
That wasn't what I said. I didn't say 'if they don't get what
they want.' If I thought that I might call the manager, but I
would make damned sure that both the manager AND cashier knew
that I appreciate the cashier did the most they could for me and
simply, like you said, didn't have the power to do more...but,
maybe the manager did.
And a last PS: I always thank the sales
associate/cashier/customer service person for all their
help...unless they treated me badly...and I DON'T mean they said
'no' to me when the should have said 'no.' I have had sales
associates/receptionists/customer service people etc. who DO
treat me, as a customer, like I am an idiot who should be
thrilled to give them my money whether they're service/product
is worth anything or not...but, not many.
[/quote]
There was a young, non-white Karen in a NYC hotel who accused a
young black teen of stealing her IPhone. She assaulted him. Her
cab/Uber driver walked in returning the phone that she had left
in the car.
Anyone treating anyone else like crap at anytime is wrong.
However there are times when the customer thinks the cashier is
overcharging when they aren't. When the manager gets called, the
manager might change the price to what the customer wants/thinks
it should be even though what the cashier rang up was correct.
I agree, you didn't say "if they don't get what they want." I
apologize. I didn't mean that you said that. I was just trying
not to get lengthy and ranty.
I tend to take things literally. So your phraseology "because
she's been treated like crap, overcharged or etc. and the sales
associate won't do anything about i ." I did take it as an
example in which the customer was actually being treated like
crap by the cashier or was actually being overcharged by the
cashier.
I did realize that you were not referring to yourself as the
customer.
#Post#: 63882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: Raintree Date: February 23, 2021, 12:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I had to laugh when I first found out what a "Karen" was. Not
because of the name (I know lots of wonderful people with that
name and it's a nice name) but because anyone who has worked in
retail has met this woman, who is simply a type. I worked in the
80s in retail stores and I definitely know the type; we just
didn't have a name for it back then. It was the b**chy mom with
kids (and I think she had that haircut even then) who liked to
take out all her frustrations on cashiers, then look at your
name badge and pointedly use your name while demanding to speak
to the manager. She'd throw a hissy fit if the store was out of
something and demand you go to the "back" to look for more
stock, even if you knew it was not there. She'd
passive-aggressively address you through her children (as in,
say to her toddlers for you to hear, "Come on, Susie and Johnny,
this girl obviously doesn't want to help us so we'll go
elsewhere.")
It's a composite portrait, is all (though it's unfortunate that
a perfectly nice name has been hijacked in this way). I could
come up with a whole cast of characters that anyone in retail
recognizes. There's "Karen" and there is the pervy middle-aged
guy hitting on the teenage female cashiers, ordering them to
smile. There's the condescending old fart who can't deal with a
young female knowing more than he does about her own job.
There's the old lady who actually reads the flyers that come to
her home, comes a day before the flyer takes effect and gets
upset that the sale starts tomorrow.
Kevin has his own haircut; it's the spiky hair gelled guy trying
to cover up his receding hairline, was once a high school jock
but now coaches his kid's team. He wears a business suit and
taps his foot impatiently while the old lady in front of him
tries to count out her change. His time is way more important
than anyone else's and he does not like being told by young
teenage girls to stand 6 feet back until he is called to the
checkout. When he gets there he challenges them on some issue
that's store policy. I came up with my vision of Kevin after
watching the way one of his ilk treated a cashier recently.
However, I too am annoyed at the "Karen" concept being
appropriated by misogynists so that it now means "any woman who
speaks up" or "any woman he disagrees with."
And I have stopped using the term Karen because it is insulting
to women who actually have that name and don't behave like the
persona. Maybe new terminology is required but the type being
described definitely exists.
#Post#: 63897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: Codewoman1125 Date: February 23, 2021, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Raintree, after working retail (and I know all those characters
you described!), I've come to the opinion that everyone should
be required to work retail themselves. I was never a "Please let
me speak to your manager" person before, but after working
retail I can predict I never will be. Unless it's a compliment!
#Post#: 63903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Okay Karen
By: mime Date: February 23, 2021, 1:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Codewoman1125 link=topic=1871.msg63897#msg63897
date=1614099429]
Raintree, after working retail (and I know all those characters
you described!), I've come to the opinion that everyone should
be required to work retail themselves. I was never a "Please let
me speak to your manager" person before, but after working
retail I can predict I never will be. Unless it's a compliment!
[/quote]
Same here! Add in the people wanting discounts piled on top of
each other, or deep discounts for perceived-but-not-really
defects. And the magical "back"! Our back room was tiny, with no
stock. Nobody believed that. People were under the impression
that there was some massive secret warehouse behind those doors
instead of a little desk with paperwork and a microwave.
Customers could NOT believe that there's nothing to check in
back. So if asked, we'd politely agree to "check in back" and
disappear for a few minutes... maybe get a bathroom break... and
come back empty handed.
I really hated when Karens used my name from my name tag. I
think that was the signal to you that "I'll be able to name you
when I report this to your manager." Glad I had a great manager
who backed her staff.
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