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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 60864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: Winterlight Date: November 30, 2020, 2:36 pm
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[quote author=GardenGal link=topic=1859.msg60862#msg60862
date=1606768222]
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=1859.msg60859#msg60859
date=1606765767]
Here is my annual plea: PLEASE DO NOT PUT UP A MENORAH IF YOU'RE
NOT JEWISH. It is not a decoration. It is a symbol of the fight
against assimilation. And if you're not Jewish, and you do this,
you are appropriating my religion. Please, please, don't do it!
If you want to be sensitive to your Jewish friends and coworkers
this time of year, then wish them a Happy Hanukkah between 12/10
and 12/18. And maybe don't drown the office in Christmas
music/decorations. Even those of us who like the stuff get tired
of how it takes over everything.
[/quote]
Too right about the menorah. I was appalled when I was watching
an otherwise very good British TV show and when they took a
Jewish family to see the victim in the morgue they had a menorah
instead of their usual cross. Sheesh!!!
[/quote]
What, really? Good grief. At least they could have picked the
Star of David, or just taken the cross down. A menorah
symbolizes one holiday in the Jewish calendar, and a minor one
at that. Putting it up in place of a cross is just weird.
#Post#: 60875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: Nikko-chan Date: November 30, 2020, 9:11 pm
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Oh good grief! That's... I... Maybe they thought people wouldn't
recognize the star of David? Other than that I got nothin.
#Post#: 60884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: Aleko Date: December 1, 2020, 2:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Too right about the menorah. I was appalled when I was watching
an otherwise very good British TV show and when they took a
Jewish family to see the victim in the morgue they had a menorah
instead of their usual cross. Sheesh!!!
By ‘show’ you mean a drama series, presumably, not anything
factual? What series was that?
It sounds an extraordinarily dimwitted notion on the part of the
design team. I wouldn’t expect to see any kind of religious
symbols at all in a mortuary (the normal Rightpondian term):
these are strictly storage facilities, and the fewer fiddly
things to keep sterile the better. If the body was at an
undertakers’ premises, if the undertakers put anything religious
into the room at all (not likely, although they might well ask
the relatives if they wanted to bring something in themselves),
they would certainly have a set of guidelines on what was
tactful and proper for each of the major religions in their
catchment area, checked with the relevant religious authorities.
#Post#: 60900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: GardenGal Date: December 1, 2020, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1859.msg60884#msg60884
date=1606812545]
Too right about the menorah. I was appalled when I was watching
an otherwise very good British TV show and when they took a
Jewish family to see the victim in the morgue they had a menorah
instead of their usual cross. Sheesh!!!
By ‘show’ you mean a drama series, presumably, not anything
factual? What series was that?
It sounds an extraordinarily dimwitted notion on the part of the
design team. I wouldn’t expect to see any kind of religious
symbols at all in a mortuary (the normal Rightpondian term):
these are strictly storage facilities, and the fewer fiddly
things to keep sterile the better. If the body was at an
undertakers’ premises, if the undertakers put anything religious
into the room at all (not likely, although they might well ask
the relatives if they wanted to bring something in themselves),
they would certainly have a set of guidelines on what was
tactful and proper for each of the major religions in their
catchment area, checked with the relevant religious authorities.
[/quote]
The TV program - a drama series about a group of forensic
scientists - is usually pretty good about most cultural things
that I've noticed. I think the name is "Silent Witness;" we
watched it on Amazon Prime. The body was in a viewing room
where they take the families to see the victims, and usually
there is a cross in there, if I remember correctly, so not in a
sterile area.
#Post#: 60901--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: Rose Red Date: December 1, 2020, 3:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=GardenGal link=topic=1859.msg60900#msg60900
date=1606855711]
The TV program - a drama series about a group of forensic
scientists - is usually pretty good about most cultural things
that I've noticed. I think the name is "Silent Witness;" we
watched it on Amazon Prime. The body was in a viewing room
where they take the families to see the victims, and usually
there is a cross in there, if I remember correctly, so not in a
sterile area.
[/quote]
And the episode was just a random day and not during Chanukah?
If so, that's really weird. A menorah is so specific to a
holiday.
#Post#: 60925--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: lowspark Date: December 2, 2020, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=1859.msg60864#msg60864
date=1606768577]
A menorah symbolizes one holiday in the Jewish calendar, and a
minor one at that.
[/quote]
I think you are confusing a menorah with a hanukkiah, which is
really a very common misconception.
Per wikipedia:
[quote]The menorah (/məˈnɔːrə/; Hebrew:
מְנוֹרָה‎
[menoˈʁa]) is described in the Bible as the seven-lamp
(six branches) ancient Hebrew lampstand made of pure gold and
used in the portable sanctuary set up by Moses in the wilderness
and later in the Temple in Jerusalem. Fresh olive oil was burned
daily to light its lamps. The menorah has been a symbol of
Judaism since ancient times and is the emblem on the coat of
arms of the modern state of Israel.[/quote]
[quote]The Hanukkah menorah, also chanukiah or hanukkiah
(Hebrew: מנורת
חנוכה‎ menorat
ḥanukkah, pl. menorot; also Hebrew:
חַנֻכִּיָ&
#1468;ה‎
ḥanukkiyah, or chanukkiyah, pl.
ḥanukkiyot/chanukkiyot, or Yiddish:
חנוכּה
לאָמפּ‎ khanike lomp,
lit.: Hanukkah lamp), is a nine-branched candelabrum lit during
the eight-day holiday of Hanukkah, as opposed to the
seven-branched menorah used in the ancient Temple or as a
symbol.[/quote]
If indeed they did have a menorah, the seven-lamp version, then
that is actually quite appropriate as a Jewish symbol.
The Israeli state emblem:
HTML https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/israel/semelm1.jpg
#Post#: 60953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: GardenGal Date: December 2, 2020, 3:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Rose Red link=topic=1859.msg60901#msg60901
date=1606857981]
[quote author=GardenGal link=topic=1859.msg60900#msg60900
date=1606855711]
The TV program - a drama series about a group of forensic
scientists - is usually pretty good about most cultural things
that I've noticed. I think the name is "Silent Witness;" we
watched it on Amazon Prime. The body was in a viewing room
where they take the families to see the victims, and usually
there is a cross in there, if I remember correctly, so not in a
sterile area.
[/quote]
And the episode was just a random day and not during Chanukah?
If so, that's really weird. A menorah is so specific to a
holiday.
[/quote]
I recall it being a random day, and even during Chanukah it
still wouldn't be at all appropriate (but perhaps a bit more
understandable).
#Post#: 60954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: GardenGal Date: December 2, 2020, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=lowspark link=topic=1859.msg60925#msg60925
date=1606920537]
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=1859.msg60864#msg60864
date=1606768577]
A menorah symbolizes one holiday in the Jewish calendar, and a
minor one at that.
[/quote]
I think you are confusing a menorah with a hanukkiah, which is
really a very common misconception.
Per wikipedia:
[quote]The menorah (/məˈnɔːrə/; Hebrew:
מְנוֹרָה‎
[menoˈʁa]) is described in the Bible as the seven-lamp
(six branches) ancient Hebrew lampstand made of pure gold and
used in the portable sanctuary set up by Moses in the wilderness
and later in the Temple in Jerusalem. Fresh olive oil was burned
daily to light its lamps. The menorah has been a symbol of
Judaism since ancient times and is the emblem on the coat of
arms of the modern state of Israel.[/quote]
[quote]The Hanukkah menorah, also chanukiah or hanukkiah
(Hebrew: מנורת
חנוכה‎ menorat
ḥanukkah, pl. menorot; also Hebrew:
חַנֻכִּיָ&
#1468;ה‎
ḥanukkiyah, or chanukkiyah, pl.
ḥanukkiyot/chanukkiyot, or Yiddish:
חנוכּה
לאָמפּ‎ khanike lomp,
lit.: Hanukkah lamp), is a nine-branched candelabrum lit during
the eight-day holiday of Hanukkah, as opposed to the
seven-branched menorah used in the ancient Temple or as a
symbol.[/quote]
If indeed they did have a menorah, the seven-lamp version, then
that is actually quite appropriate as a Jewish symbol.
The Israeli state emblem:
HTML https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/israel/semelm1.jpg
[/quote]
Wow - I was raised Jewish and never knew this distinction! I
think it was a Hannuhak menorah, I would have noticed if it was
only a seven-lamp version as that would have looked very unusual
to me. Thanks for this info!
#Post#: 61102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: Gellchom Date: December 6, 2020, 5:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=lowspark link=topic=1859.msg60925#msg60925
date=1606920537]
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=1859.msg60864#msg60864
date=1606768577]
A menorah symbolizes one holiday in the Jewish calendar, and a
minor one at that.
[/quote]
I think you are confusing a menorah with a hanukkiah, which is
really a very common misconception.
Per wikipedia:
[quote]The menorah (/məˈnɔːrə/; Hebrew:
מְנוֹרָה‎
[menoˈʁa]) is described in the Bible as the seven-lamp
(six branches) ancient Hebrew lampstand made of pure gold and
used in the portable sanctuary set up by Moses in the wilderness
and later in the Temple in Jerusalem. Fresh olive oil was burned
daily to light its lamps. The menorah has been a symbol of
Judaism since ancient times and is the emblem on the coat of
arms of the modern state of Israel.[/quote]
[quote]The Hanukkah menorah, also chanukiah or hanukkiah
(Hebrew: מנורת
חנוכה‎ menorat
ḥanukkah, pl. menorot; also Hebrew:
חַנֻכִּיָ&
#1468;ה‎
ḥanukkiyah, or chanukkiyah, pl.
ḥanukkiyot/chanukkiyot, or Yiddish:
חנוכּה
לאָמפּ‎ khanike lomp,
lit.: Hanukkah lamp), is a nine-branched candelabrum lit during
the eight-day holiday of Hanukkah, as opposed to the
seven-branched menorah used in the ancient Temple or as a
symbol.[/quote]
If indeed they did have a menorah, the seven-lamp version, then
that is actually quite appropriate as a Jewish symbol.
The Israeli state emblem:
HTML https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/israel/semelm1.jpg
[/quote]
Low spark is right, of course.
And even a seven branch menorah would be odd for that use. It’s
more a symbol of the Jewish people as a group than a personal
religious symbol. You’d more likely see the star.
#Post#: 61116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jewish holidays primer for non-Jewish people.
By: Songbird Date: December 6, 2020, 11:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Winterlight link=topic=1859.msg58590#msg58590
date=1602106655]
[quote author=Gellchom link=topic=1859.msg58547#msg58547
date=1602043133]
[quote author=Songbird link=topic=1859.msg58537#msg58537
date=1602018062]
[quote author=STiG link=topic=1859.msg58501#msg58501
date=1601939221]
Where I used to work, they took two days that normally everyone
got off - not stat holidays but ones that were often observed -
and made them 'floating holidays'. It allowed non-christians to
take two days for their high holidays without having to dip into
their vacation bank. I thought it was a good way to handle it
but it did cause some issues because it meant that some people
had to work on the originally designated days who might not want
to, especially if a department was small.
Many, many years ago, before religion and schools were
separated, my Dad was teaching the Christmas story to his class.
One mother approached him after school one day and explained to
him that their family was Jewish. Dad was a little worried but
this mother told him that she had no issue with her son learning
the Christmas story. But then asked if she and her son could
bring in some things and talk about the Jewish traditions at
that time of year. I'm not sure if they spoke about all the
high holidays or not.
I think we could all use a primer on all the high points of the
major religions. :)
[/quote]
My daughter's kindergarten teacher had a great idea. At the
beginning of the school year she figured out the ethnic and
religious background of each student in the class. In December
she'd invite a Jewish mom or dad to give a lesson on Hanukkah,
and they'd have a party. Another day she'd have an
African-American mom talk about Kwanzaa, and they'd have a
party. My daughter's friend's mom was an immigrant from
China, and her lesson was on the Lunar New Year. So when the
class had a Christmas party, she'd do a lesson on Christmas
traditions from around the world. All of the children felt
included.
[/quote]
But why did she have the Jewish family present on Chanukah?
It's such a minor holiday on the Jewish calendar. If they
really care about honoring the culture of each student, they
should choose a holiday that is important to that culture, not
the one that comes closest to Christmas on the calendar.
[/quote]
Agreed. Passover or Rosh Hashanah would be much better options.
Though it looks like the teacher only did this in December,
which also leaves out Muslim and Hindu kids.
[/quote]
You're right, the teacher focused on fall/winter holiday
celebrations.
She also knee that the non Jewish kids knew s little something
about Chanukah.
My daughter is an adult now. When she was in kindergarten our
district didn't have many Muslim or Hindu families. That has
changed.
My guess is that a Hindu parent would talk about Diwali. It's a
fall festival, but close enough.
The Muslim lunar calendar...well, holidays move from season to
season. I suppose the teacher would ask the Muslim parent what
they wanted to do, what tradition they wanted to bring into the
classroom.
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