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       #Post#: 57643--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Isisnin Date: September 20, 2020, 9:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If the dent was repaired well and the price was good or the shop
       negotiated the price to a good price, I'd pay for it (and if I
       liked the shop, I'd continue to use it with the written caveat
       on all future repairs that all cost must be preapproved). An
       unfixed dent could lead to rust and/or the insurance company
       paying me less for the car should it be stolen or totaled later.
       And if the reason they didn't do the oil change was because I
       showed up before they got to it and didn't let them do it, I
       wouldn't be upset that they didn't do what I didn't let them do.
       That's what I suspect happened with the handyman not doing
       everything. The neighbor found out about the sink and told the
       handyman to stop work.
       I also suspect that the handyman was doing authorized work in
       the bathroom. Maybe replacing a broken faucet or taking the
       drain off to clear it. And he discovered issues with the sink.
       Yes, he should have told the neighbor about the issues. I've had
       contractors tell me about an issue that came up that also needed
       fixing before they fixed it. But I've also had contractors and
       mechanics tell me after they've fixed whatever (e.g. "the value
       was so rusted that we had to replace it, so that's why the price
       is xx higher than the estimate").
       While there are a lot of variables we don't know, if the
       neighbor is keeping the sink, a negotiating a price is
       reasonable.
       #Post#: 57648--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: pierrotlunaire0 Date: September 20, 2020, 11:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Let's say that this is work that did need to get done sooner or
       later. But when the handyman took it upon himself to replace the
       sink right now (or the mechanic took it upon him or herself to
       fix the dent right now), what they have done was take away from
       me the ability to get quotes from other equally qualified
       handymen or plumbers or mechanics, to decide which sink I
       wanted, and to budget within my own schedule for the work.
       Ultimately, it was not his decision to say: you are having this
       done right here, right now, at my price, and my decision as to
       the materials used.
       #Post#: 57649--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Elisabunny Date: September 20, 2020, 11:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Isisnin link=topic=1856.msg57643#msg57643
       date=1600612333]
       If the dent was repaired well and the price was good or the shop
       negotiated the price to a good price, I'd pay for it (and if I
       liked the shop, I'd continue to use it with the written caveat
       on all future repairs that all cost must be preapproved). An
       unfixed dent could lead to rust and/or the insurance company
       paying me less for the car should it be stolen or totaled later.
       And if the reason they didn't do the oil change was because I
       showed up before they got to it and didn't let them do it, I
       wouldn't be upset that they didn't do what I didn't let them do.
       That's what I suspect happened with the handyman not doing
       everything. The neighbor found out about the sink and told the
       handyman to stop work.
       I also suspect that the handyman was doing authorized work in
       the bathroom. Maybe replacing a broken faucet or taking the
       drain off to clear it. And he discovered issues with the sink.
       Yes, he should have told the neighbor about the issues. I've had
       contractors tell me about an issue that came up that also needed
       fixing before they fixed it. But I've also had contractors and
       mechanics tell me after they've fixed whatever (e.g. "the value
       was so rusted that we had to replace it, so that's why the price
       is xx higher than the estimate").
       While there are a lot of variables we don't know, if the
       neighbor is keeping the sink, a negotiating a price is
       reasonable.
       [/quote]
       In your example, the oil change should have been done first.
       And the dent has nothing to do with the oil change, and doesn’t
       make the car unusable.  AND, one simply does not go replacing
       things without approval.
       #Post#: 57651--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Dazi Date: September 20, 2020, 12:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To me, you don't reward unethical business practices. Doing work
       that you didn't get authorization for and then
       expecting/demanding payment for is illegal.
       A good business person will suggest additional work needs to be
       done and then renegotiate the terms, not just do the work and
       demand payment.
       #Post#: 57652--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Rose Red Date: September 20, 2020, 1:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=wolfie link=topic=1856.msg57608#msg57608
       date=1600531949]
       If the neighbor can't afford the sink (I'd ask to see the
       receipt and/or research how much it costs), she could offer to
       pay what she can or make payments until the sink is paid. It's
       to the neighbor's benefit to build a good relationship with a
       good handyman. Since the quality of his world is not in dispute,
       he's a good handyman
       This handyman took it upon himself to do work that was not
       requested and neglected work that was requested. That makes him
       a0 bad handyman. It doesn't matter how good his work is if you
       can't trust him to do what he needs to do and not just walk
       around your house and do what he feels like.
       [/quote]
       Exactly. No way I would hire him again so there's no reason to
       build a good relationship. What will he install next time
       without asking first since he knows you'll pay anyway? A
       $5,000.00 toilet because yours is scratched and the 5k brand is
       awesome?
       #Post#: 57655--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Aleko Date: September 20, 2020, 1:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There’s also the point that it may be impossible to
       replace the original sink. The handyman may have binned it, and
       even if he didn’t, if he reckoned it was such bad
       condition that he would be right to rip it out and replace it
       without authorisation, I doubt he took much care not to damage
       it in the process. And even if he didn’t actually damage
       it as such, we all know that rickety old fittings and machinery
       can go on giving good service for years - until you tinker with
       them, after which they often never work again.
       As for Dazi’s parallel case of the car mechanic - speaking
       as a woman whose car does have an unsightly dent on the door,
       has decided she has more urgent uses for her money than having
       cosmetic work done on it, and is taking it in for its annual
       service and MOT test in a week or so: if I came to pick it up
       later and found  that my mechanic had pulled anything like that
       I’d be spitting tacks and feathers. Not only would I
       certainly not pay for the repair - and the law certainly would
       not oblige me to - I would let their head office know about it,
       and that I would be finding another garage to service my car, as
       I no longer had confidence in their dealership. It doesn’t
       matter how technically competent a workman is if you can’t
       trust him to do what you asked him to do.
       #Post#: 57663--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: sms Date: September 20, 2020, 4:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Aleko link=topic=1856.msg57655#msg57655
       date=1600627190]
       There’s also the point that it may be impossible to replace the
       original sink. The handyman may have binned it, and even if he
       didn’t, if he reckoned it was such bad condition that he would
       be right to rip it out and replace it without authorisation, I
       doubt he took much care not to damage it in the process. And
       even if he didn’t actually damage it as such, we all know that
       rickety old fittings and machinery can go on giving good service
       for years - until you tinker with them, after which they often
       never work again.
       As for Dazi’s parallel case of the car mechanic - speaking as a
       woman whose car does have an unsightly dent on the door, has
       decided she has more urgent uses for her money than having
       cosmetic work done on it, and is taking it in for its annual
       service and MOT test in a week or so: if I came to pick it up
       later and found  that my mechanic had pulled anything like that
       I’d be spitting tacks and feathers. Not only would I certainly
       not pay for the repair - and the law certainly would not oblige
       me to - I would let their head office know about it, and that I
       would be finding another garage to service my car, as I no
       longer had confidence in their dealership. It doesn’t matter how
       technically competent a workman is if you can’t trust him to do
       what you asked him to do.
       [/quote]
       Count me in as well as someone whose car is....ummm....a little
       weathered.  Nobody should be spending your money for you!  It
       really is that simple.  A handyman, mechanic, whatever kind of
       contractor...they can't know your financial situation or your
       priorities.
       Someone who does unauthorized work no matter whether well done
       or even if it was needed is a hustler.
       #Post#: 57678--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Aleko Date: September 21, 2020, 2:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Whoops, sorry Xainte: I fat-fingered your post as
       ‘Dislike’ and didn’t notice in time to amend
       it!
       [quote]Someone who does unauthorized work no matter whether well
       done or even if it was needed is a hustler. [/quote]
       Or, possibly, someone with a screw slightly loose. I’ve
       known a few people - colleagues, one of my own relations,
       craftspersons - who I learned from experience never to ask or
       employ to do anything for me, as they would pile in keenly, full
       of helpfulness and good will, and do something else.
       #Post#: 57683--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Hmmm Date: September 21, 2020, 8:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Isisnin link=topic=1856.msg57605#msg57605
       date=1600522938]
       It feels like the letter writer is intentionally murky about how
       she "came to find out"  about the sink incident. If the neighbor
       told the LW about the incident, it's ok for the LW to have
       responded to the neighbor with her opinion. If handyman told the
       LW about the incident, it was wrong for the LW to go to the
       neighbor and tell neighbor her opinion. Now the LW needs to stay
       out of it.
       That said, the handyman was wrong to do the work without the
       neighbor's approval. Assuming the sink was acceptable (ie very
       similar to the one replaced which it must have been otherwise
       the neighbor would have insisted on its removal), the handyman's
       offer of free labor and neighbor pays for the sink was fair.
       If the neighbor can't afford the sink (I'd ask to see the
       receipt and/or research how much it costs), she could offer to
       pay what she can or make payments until the sink is paid. It's
       to the neighbor's benefit to build a good relationship with a
       good handyman. Since the quality of his world is not in dispute,
       he's a good handyman. She's kinda cutting off her nose to spite
       her face by not compromising.
       This is a little different than receiving an unsolicited gift in
       the mail. Recipients of mailed "gifts" may not use the item and
       may toss it which is why you don't have to pay for unsolicited
       mailed gifts. But the neighbor is keeping and using the sink
       (assuming she she is keeping it and not insisting the old one or
       a different one be installed). Thus the neighbor is in a better
       position than before this started. A new sink has added to the
       value of her home. Besides hearing of the legality of keeping
       unsolicited gifts, I've also heard that the law makes a person
       whole, not better then before.
       So she should pay for the sink. And the LW should stay out of
       this
       [/quote]
       Your idea of a good handyman is very different than mine. I
       would never allow him to do work in my home again if he did not
       follow my instructions. That is a basic requirement. I don't
       mind professionals making suggestions or even disagreeing with
       my instructions. But to override me is not going to happen. And
       I almost feel like the handyman is a bit of a scammer. I can't
       imagine any honest handyman deciding to go out and buy material
       such a sink and expect to be paid for it without prior
       authorization.
       When we bought our current house, we did the usual paint, new
       floors and other upgrades and we had a general contractor. DH
       and I spent a significant amount of time choosing paint colors
       for walls, ceilings and trim. We spent time in the rooms at
       night, morning and afternoons to see how the colors worked. I
       did not willy nilly pick out my paint choices. We bought the
       paint because I had very specific brands I wanted in different
       rooms. We then labeled each can with the room and where it was
       to be used. Our family room has very high ceilings which we
       chose to paint a darker color than the walls. The paint cans
       were labeled correctly. But the GM decided I had made a mistake
       and painted the ceiling the wall color and then called to
       complain they ran out of wall color when they started on the
       walls with the ceiling paint. If he had made a call before
       starting the work, he would have saved quite a bit of money
       because you better believe I did not pay for the replacement
       paint or the hours his staff spent rectifying his mistake. He
       tried to go to my husband and say I'd lost my mind and would
       regret having a darker ceiling. That didn't work since it was my
       husband's idea to paint the ceiling darker.
       #Post#: 57687--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
       ecommendation
       By: Rose Red Date: September 21, 2020, 9:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       In one of the threads, there were posts about porcelain vs
       stainless steel sinks. I have a friend who installed a new
       bathroom sink that she loves but I thought it was ugly. Buying
       appliances and budget are personal choices and I would be livid
       if a handyman took that away from me. If I have to live with
       *his* decision, he's going to eat the cost and I will thank him
       for the free sink.
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