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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 57592--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: Aleko Date: September 18, 2020, 1:54 pm
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[quote]I believe there is also legal precedent that, e.g.,
unsolicited products sent by mail to people are legally
considered gifts, so the recipients have no obligation to either
pay for the items or return them, to eliminate scams where
someone could send unsolicited items and then bill for them. I
don't know if that legally translates to a situation where an
unsolicited item is installed without permission, but it seems
like a close parallel.[/quote]
In the UK, if a workman or a building company do work in your
house that you didn't ask to have done, you are not obliged to
pay for it. You have the option of making them undo the
unauthorised work and restore things to their previous state at
their own expense, or if you don't mind the work that has been
done you may consider it as a kind of free gift and simply keep
it. And not only are unsolicited goods sent by mail legally
considered as gifts: it is even an offence for the supplier to
then request payment for the unsolicited goods, or threaten to
take legal action for the recovery of such payment.
#Post#: 57599--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: LifeOnPluto Date: September 19, 2020, 12:20 am
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Just because the LW made the initial recommendation, doesn't
mean that she has the right to interject herself into the
business relationship between her friend and the handyman.
(That's a bit like setting two of your friends up on a blind
date, then believing you have a right to interject in their
relationship / marriage from that point on!).
As for the friend not paying the handyman for the unsolicited
work he did, it's a tough one. He can't "undo" the work, and it
might not be possible for him to replace the original sink
anyway, if it was chucked away. Personally, I'd offer him what I
consider to be a fair price for the new materials - on a 'take
it or leave it' basis. But I also think the friend would be
within her rights to not pay him at all for that work.
#Post#: 57604--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: gramma dishes Date: September 19, 2020, 8:33 am
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[quote author=LifeOnPluto link=topic=1856.msg57599#msg57599
date=1600492859]
...
As for the friend not paying the handyman for the unsolicited
work he did, it's a tough one. He can't "undo" the work, and it
might not be possible for him to replace the original sink
anyway, if it was chucked away. Personally, I'd offer him what I
consider to be a fair price for the new materials - on a 'take
it or leave it' basis. But I also think the friend would be
within her rights to not pay him at all for that work.
[/quote]
There is no way in hell I would ever pay someone who did work I
did not authorize and especially if I had not choice in the
materials used!
No. Just not happening.
#Post#: 57605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: Isisnin Date: September 19, 2020, 8:42 am
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It feels like the letter writer is intentionally murky about how
she "came to find out" about the sink incident. If the neighbor
told the LW about the incident, it's ok for the LW to have
responded to the neighbor with her opinion. If handyman told the
LW about the incident, it was wrong for the LW to go to the
neighbor and tell neighbor her opinion. Now the LW needs to stay
out of it.
That said, the handyman was wrong to do the work without the
neighbor's approval. Assuming the sink was acceptable (ie very
similar to the one replaced which it must have been otherwise
the neighbor would have insisted on its removal), the handyman's
offer of free labor and neighbor pays for the sink was fair.
If the neighbor can't afford the sink (I'd ask to see the
receipt and/or research how much it costs), she could offer to
pay what she can or make payments until the sink is paid. It's
to the neighbor's benefit to build a good relationship with a
good handyman. Since the quality of his world is not in dispute,
he's a good handyman. She's kinda cutting off her nose to spite
her face by not compromising.
This is a little different than receiving an unsolicited gift in
the mail. Recipients of mailed "gifts" may not use the item and
may toss it which is why you don't have to pay for unsolicited
mailed gifts. But the neighbor is keeping and using the sink
(assuming she she is keeping it and not insisting the old one or
a different one be installed). Thus the neighbor is in a better
position than before this started. A new sink has added to the
value of her home. Besides hearing of the legality of keeping
unsolicited gifts, I've also heard that the law makes a person
whole, not better then before.
So she should pay for the sink. And the LW should stay out of
this
#Post#: 57608--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: wolfie Date: September 19, 2020, 11:12 am
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If the neighbor can't afford the sink (I'd ask to see the
receipt and/or research how much it costs), she could offer to
pay what she can or make payments until the sink is paid. It's
to the neighbor's benefit to build a good relationship with a
good handyman. Since the quality of his world is not in dispute,
he's a good handyman
This handyman took it upon himself to do work that was not
requested and neglected work that was requested. That makes him
a0 bad handyman. It doesn't matter how good his work is if you
can't trust him to do what he needs to do and not just walk
around your house and do what he feels like.
#Post#: 57609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: Aleko Date: September 19, 2020, 11:35 am
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[quote]But the neighbor is keeping and using the sink (assuming
she she is keeping it and not insisting the old one or a
different one be installed). Thus the neighbor is in a better
position than before this started. A new sink has added to the
value of her home. [/quote]
I don't agree that she is necessarily 'in a better position' at
all.
- We don't know if the old sink is available to be replaced; he
might already have thrown it out. Or damaged it in the removal.
- Even if there was something wrong, we don't know if it was
with the sink itself rather than a perished washer, or some
such.
- We don't know what he thought was wrong with the sink; but if
it was say a bit scratched or dented, she might have been
perfectly happy with it, and it might have gone on giving
perfectly good service for years. Why should she pay out because
he felt it wasn't good enough for her, even though she, the
owner, reckoned it was? (I have plenty of things in my house
that are old and scruffy, that other people might want to
replace, but I don't. If I got in a workman to lay new vinyl
flooring in my larder, and he looked at the carpet in the
corridor outside and thought 'Ooh, that's a bit ropey and
ancient - I'll choose and buy some new carpet and lay it without
consulting her', I'd be absolutely furious, and no I would not
pay for it. Even if I quite liked it. It's not up to a workman
to decide how I spend my money.)
#Post#: 57615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: lisastitch Date: September 19, 2020, 2:53 pm
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[quote author=Isisnin link=topic=1856.msg57605#msg57605
date=1600522938]
If the neighbor can't afford the sink (I'd ask to see the
receipt and/or research how much it costs), she could offer to
pay what she can or make payments until the sink is paid. It's
to the neighbor's benefit to build a good relationship with a
good handyman. Since the quality of his world is not in dispute,
he's a good handyman. She's kinda cutting off her nose to spite
her face by not compromising.
[/quote]
Except that I would not consider him to be a good handyman. He
decided my sink needed replacing and replaced it without talking
to me. What else would he decide to needs to be fixed? What
else would he take on without talking to me?
If he thought the sink needed to be replaced, he needed to talk
to the homeowner about it. Even if she asks him to buy a
replacement sink, there should have been a discussion about how
much she wants to spend on the sink, and how much he will charge
to install it.
#Post#: 57635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: Aleko Date: September 20, 2020, 3:27 am
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Also: how can a sink possibly be “in terrible condition” without
the owner noticing? (Unless it’s simply disused, say if it’s in
a garage or outhouse somewhere; in which case the workman can
clearly not presume that she wants it mended or replaced at
all.)
And let’s not forget that it wasn’t only the sink: the letter
says that it was just one of several items that he simply
decided to replace without any reference to her. And that he
bought and installed these items instead of doing the work she
had hired him to do. That really torpedoes Isisnin’s suggestion
that she is ‘in a better position than before’. She had drawn up
a list of repair tasks that she wanted him to do; we have to
assume that she considered them her top priority. Maybe that was
even all the work she could afford to have done at one go. But
instead of having all those problems fixed, she has had ‘only a
few of them fixed’ and work done that she didn’t want. Plus, she
now has to start over again to find another workman to deal with
the other problems.
#Post#: 57636--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: Dazi Date: September 20, 2020, 4:21 am
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Okay, to all of you saying she should pay for the sink, let me
pose this...
Say your friend recommended a mechanic to you. You take your car
in for an oil change and tire rotation and was quoted $75 for
the work. You come back a few hours later and the mechanic
presents you with a bill for $300 because he decided the
unsightly dent on your door needed fixed. He didn't ask your
before doing this repair. Would you seriously pay this person
for doing unauthorized work you didn't ask for?
#Post#: 57638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Interjecting into a business dealing based on you giving a r
ecommendation
By: Aleko Date: September 20, 2020, 5:21 am
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[quote]You take your car in for an oil change and tire rotation
and was quoted $75 for the work. You come back a few hours later
and the mechanic presents you with a bill for $300 because he
decided the unsightly dent on your door needed fixed. He didn't
ask your before doing this repair.
[/quote]
And he also hasn’t done the oil change!
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