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       #Post#: 47805--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: Surly
       Date: February 23, 2020, 5:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not seeing niece as snotty/rude here at all.
       Maybe for #1, she was speaking too loudly, but she didn't
       realize it, or didn't realize that she was upsetting your
       daughter.  I've certainly teased my little sister about how
       babysitting her ruined my social life!  When family asks you to
       babysit, it's often understood to be a requirement (plus, OP,
       her parents may have told her it was mandatory, even if you
       tried to make it clear it was optional).  I'd cut her some slack
       here if she's not generally a mean person.
       For #2, getting her hair done 1/2 hour before the party may not
       have worked -- sometimes, guests come early, or you're trying to
       get things ready.  I'd find it stressful to be trying to fit in
       the hair appointment that close to the start.  It sounds
       perfectly reasonable that she went with someone else, and I
       wouldn't take any insult in it.
       It sounds like maybe your daughter is upset that your niece
       doesn't come to the salon anymore, and is reading a lot into
       their interactions?
       #Post#: 47807--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: Sycorax
       Date: February 23, 2020, 5:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: PVZFan link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Rose Red link=topic=1641.msg47768#msg47768
       date=1582398525]
       > [quote author=surlyrat link=topic=1641.msg47767#msg47767
       date=1582398012]
       > I think 2 weekends a month sounds like a lot, actually,
       especially as a teenager. I don't see what the problem is with
       her saying that?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The problem was saying it to the clients and coworkers at the
       salon. I would feel uncomfortable listening and being addressed
       to that way. Of course I go to chains and have never experienced
       salons like they show on tv and movies so YMMV.
       [/quote]
       I'm with you on the chains - the one I've been going to lately
       is a Japanese franchise that promotes their expedient service.
       The stylists barely speak at all and the majority of the other
       customers are men. (It's a uni-sex barbershop, I've only seen
       one other woman there.)
       [/quote]
       When I was looking for a new stylist, I was visiting all of the
       salons in town.  At one of them there was so much loud negative
       discussion between the stylists (and possibly the customers, I
       don't remember), it was extremely off-putting.
       #Post#: 47808--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: chigger
       Date: February 23, 2020, 6:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: surlyrat link ---
       >
       > [quote author=chigger link=topic=1641.msg47780#msg47780
       date=1582410876]
       > [quote author=jpcher link=topic=1641.msg47727#msg47727
       date=1582325998]
       > I have a couple of etiquette questions from my DD#2. We had a
       nice chat last night and both questions concern my Niece.
       >
       > 1. Niece used to go to DD#2's salon to get her hair done.
       Remarked on what a wonderful job, etc. Niece has since moved 1+
       hour drive away and doesn't come in any more. Perfectly
       understandable.
       >
       > During the last visit Niece made to DD#2's salon she spoke
       loudly and was addressing comments to other clients and stylists
       about how she was DD#2 (and DD#1)'s babysitter while she was
       growing up. Went on to say how she never had a weekend to
       herself because the adults (me, LDH, SIL, BIL) would get
       together and depend on her to watch the kids and that's why she
       didn't have many friends through her HS years.
       >
       > WHAT! Not true. I always asked her in advance if she would be
       available to watch the DDs. The adults would get together maybe
       once or twice a month for a day road trip (motorcycles) or an
       evening out.
       >
       > Okay. I get it. Maybe she was over used as a babysitter. But I
       remember the DDs being so excited about spending time with
       Niece. Yay! Niece always said "We'll have so much fun!" and was
       enthusiastic whenever I asked her to babysit. I paid her well
       for her time and always told her how much I appreciated the care
       that she gave my DDs.
       >
       > When DD#2 told me what Niece said to her stylists and
       customers I cringed and thought "Wow. Was I an abusive aunt?"
       >
       > I basically told DD#2 that at least she's not coming into your
       shop any more. Just write it off and let it go. I think Niece
       was rather rude.
       >
       > Do you have any thoughts on this situation?
       >
       >
       >
       > 2. Niece is having a baby shower coming up in a few weeks.
       Niece called DD#2 and asked her if she could do her hair before
       the baby shower. DD#2 said that she has plans/reservations with
       me and DD#1 for brunch before the shower but we could probably
       show up 1/2 hour earlier than the shower starts. DD#2 said
       (knowing Niece's hair) that she's confident that 1/2 hour will
       be enough time. Plus DD#2 was willing to do Niece's hair for no
       charge.
       >
       > Niece said (according to DD#2 in a snotty type voice) Oh, no,
       that won't work. I guess I'll have to find somebody else.
       >
       > I told DD#2 that Niece can do whatever she wants to do with
       her hair, if she wants somebody else? That's no concern of
       yours. But DD#2 feels bad that she can't do Niece's hair due to
       prior plans. (DD#1, for those that don't know, lives in far away
       state and is coming in for just the weekend. So it's not like we
       can spend quality time, just the three of us, as a usual thing.)
       >
       >
       >
       > I'd really like to know your thoughts on both of these
       situations.
       >
       >
       > Thanks in advance.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Once or twice a month sitting with your daughters, and she's
       going to act like she was there every day? And be so bitchy as
       to tell staff and clients that she had no life, because of it ?
       Then she gets snotty with your younger daughter because  she
       can't do her hair (for free!) on Neice's timeline. I would
       probably not go to the shower, and just back away. Unless, you
       want to keep a relationship with her parents, then I might suck
       it up, go to this one event, then have a prior engagement for
       all other invitations. Your daughter should not feel bad at all!
       [/quote]
       Why do people always advocate for cutting off long term
       relationships for a mildly negative interaction?
       [/quote]
       I don't see it as a mildly negative interaction, she came into
       DD2's place of business (which DD2 is the owner of) and loudly
       tells the employees and clients how she had no social life in
       high school because of DD1 and DD2! She embarrassed her cousin
       in front of her employees and clients! I would be mortified if
       my family member did something like that. OP has assured us that
       she did not take advantage of the niece.
       I'm not saying cut her off, I would just dial way back. She
       acted like a jackass, and that has consequences.
       #Post#: 47810--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: chigger
       Date: February 23, 2020, 6:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Surly link ---
       >
       > I'm not seeing niece as snotty/rude here at all.
       >
       > Maybe for #1, she was speaking too loudly, but she didn't
       realize it, or didn't realize that she was upsetting your
       daughter.  I've certainly teased my little sister about how
       babysitting her ruined my social life!  When family asks you to
       babysit, it's often understood to be a requirement (plus, OP,
       her parents may have told her it was mandatory, even if you
       tried to make it clear it was optional).  I'd cut her some slack
       here if she's not generally a mean person.
       >
       > For #2, getting her hair done 1/2 hour before the party may
       not have worked -- sometimes, guests come early, or you're
       trying to get things ready.  I'd find it stressful to be trying
       to fit in the hair appointment that close to the start.  It
       sounds perfectly reasonable that she went with someone else, and
       I wouldn't take any insult in it.
       >
       > It sounds like maybe your daughter is upset that your niece
       doesn't come to the salon anymore, and is reading a lot into
       their interactions?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Daughter has no problem that cousin does not come into the salon
       after moving an hour away.
       #Post#: 47831--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: lowspark
       Date: February 24, 2020, 9:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm looking at #1 from the point of view of overhearing this as
       a customer in the salon. I would be inclined to take it with a
       grain of salt. People love to embellish and exaggerate stories
       from their youth. I would have probably seen it as an attempt,
       even if ill advised or badly executed, by Niece to tease DD.
       And to be honest, it would color my opinion of Niece way more
       than that of DD. So really, both DD and you need to let this one
       go. Just forget about it as if it never happened. Make it so
       that it didn't even register a blip on your radar.
       For #2, Niece is the GOH at the shower, right? IOW, she's the
       one having a baby? I would give her a huge pass on this.
       Pregnancy wreaks havoc on your emotional state. Certainly, DD
       hasn't anything to feel guilty about, but I can understand
       Niece's disappointment manifesting itself in a not so nice way.
       Unless this woman has a history of being rude or mean, I'd
       forgive and forget both of these incidents post haste.
       #Post#: 47835--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: Hanna
       Date: February 24, 2020, 10:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I would just ignore all of this. Any response seems likely to
       result in an uncomfortable emotional exchange. She really sounds
       like she was just running her mouth.
       #Post#: 47841--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: DaDancingPsych
       Date: February 24, 2020, 1:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Situation 1: I am not sure what niece's goals were. Maybe she
       was making conversation with other patrons. Maybe she really
       does feel used and abused. Either way, I agree with your advice
       to forget about it. If she was still coming to the salon often
       and saying such things, I might suggest that DD speak with her
       and request that she not air family laundry at the salon. If
       niece really has an issue as to how she was treated, she should
       be addressing them directly with you or her mother.
       Situation 2: Without any other back story, I wonder if tone was
       misunderstood. Being disappointed might sound like being snotty.
       It's totally possible that niece really wanted DD to do her hair
       and was disappointed that it wasn't possible. DD sounds good, so
       I would be disappointed, too! I would give her the benefit of
       the doubt and let it go. DD should make sure to compliment
       niece's hair and hopefully all will be good. Now if this
       behavior continues, it might need addressed and/or DD may simply
       never be available to assist her in the future.
       #Post#: 47842--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: lisastitch
       Date: February 24, 2020, 1:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Isisnin link ---
       >
       > If Niece brings up situation No 1 again, you can address it in
       a pleasant, confused tone:
       >
       > "Niece, that's not quite accurate. We only went out with your
       parents no more than a couple times a month, if that. And we
       always asked if you were free to babysit and if you did sit we
       paid you the going rate."
       >
       > This way you clarify that she agreed, she was paid fairly, and
       her parents knew about it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Minor quibble:  I probably wouldn't say "that's not quite
       accurate".  i'd probably say something more along the lines of
       "That's not quite how I remember it.  I remember asking you if
       you were free, and paying you the going rate, and my memory is
       that we went out with your parents no more than a couple of
       times a month".
       
       Memories can be different, just as our experiences of an event
       can be different, and the way one person remembers it can be
       totally not the way another person remembers it.  I'm surprised
       by the way my siblings and I remember events from our shared
       childhood!
       Her memories are her memories, and you can't change someone's
       memories any more than you can change their emotions.  This just
       says that your memories are different from hers.
       #Post#: 47843--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: Hmmm
       Date: February 24, 2020, 1:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: chigger link ---
       >
       > [quote author=surlyrat link=topic=1641.msg47788#msg47788
       date=1582431347]
       > [quote author=chigger link=topic=1641.msg47780#msg47780
       date=1582410876]
       > [quote author=jpcher link=topic=1641.msg47727#msg47727
       date=1582325998]
       > I have a couple of etiquette questions from my DD#2. We had a
       nice chat last night and both questions concern my Niece.
       >
       > 1. Niece used to go to DD#2's salon to get her hair done.
       Remarked on what a wonderful job, etc. Niece has since moved 1+
       hour drive away and doesn't come in any more. Perfectly
       understandable.
       >
       > During the last visit Niece made to DD#2's salon she spoke
       loudly and was addressing comments to other clients and stylists
       about how she was DD#2 (and DD#1)'s babysitter while she was
       growing up. Went on to say how she never had a weekend to
       herself because the adults (me, LDH, SIL, BIL) would get
       together and depend on her to watch the kids and that's why she
       didn't have many friends through her HS years.
       >
       > WHAT! Not true. I always asked her in advance if she would be
       available to watch the DDs. The adults would get together maybe
       once or twice a month for a day road trip (motorcycles) or an
       evening out.
       >
       > Okay. I get it. Maybe she was over used as a babysitter. But I
       remember the DDs being so excited about spending time with
       Niece. Yay! Niece always said "We'll have so much fun!" and was
       enthusiastic whenever I asked her to babysit. I paid her well
       for her time and always told her how much I appreciated the care
       that she gave my DDs.
       >
       > When DD#2 told me what Niece said to her stylists and
       customers I cringed and thought "Wow. Was I an abusive aunt?"
       >
       > I basically told DD#2 that at least she's not coming into your
       shop any more. Just write it off and let it go. I think Niece
       was rather rude.
       >
       > Do you have any thoughts on this situation?
       >
       >
       >
       > 2. Niece is having a baby shower coming up in a few weeks.
       Niece called DD#2 and asked her if she could do her hair before
       the baby shower. DD#2 said that she has plans/reservations with
       me and DD#1 for brunch before the shower but we could probably
       show up 1/2 hour earlier than the shower starts. DD#2 said
       (knowing Niece's hair) that she's confident that 1/2 hour will
       be enough time. Plus DD#2 was willing to do Niece's hair for no
       charge.
       >
       > Niece said (according to DD#2 in a snotty type voice) Oh, no,
       that won't work. I guess I'll have to find somebody else.
       >
       > I told DD#2 that Niece can do whatever she wants to do with
       her hair, if she wants somebody else? That's no concern of
       yours. But DD#2 feels bad that she can't do Niece's hair due to
       prior plans. (DD#1, for those that don't know, lives in far away
       state and is coming in for just the weekend. So it's not like we
       can spend quality time, just the three of us, as a usual thing.)
       >
       >
       >
       > I'd really like to know your thoughts on both of these
       situations.
       >
       >
       > Thanks in advance.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Once or twice a month sitting with your daughters, and she's
       going to act like she was there every day? And be so bitchy as
       to tell staff and clients that she had no life, because of it ?
       Then she gets snotty with your younger daughter because  she
       can't do her hair (for free!) on Neice's timeline. I would
       probably not go to the shower, and just back away. Unless, you
       want to keep a relationship with her parents, then I might suck
       it up, go to this one event, then have a prior engagement for
       all other invitations. Your daughter should not feel bad at all!
       [/quote]
       Why do people always advocate for cutting off long term
       relationships for a mildly negative interaction?
       [/quote]
       I don't see it as a mildly negative interaction, she came into
       DD2's place of business (which DD2 is the owner of) and loudly
       tells the employees and clients how she had no social life in
       high school because of DD1 and DD2! She embarrassed her cousin
       in front of her employees and clients! I would be mortified if
       my family member did something like that. OP has assured us that
       she did not take advantage of the niece.
       I'm not saying cut her off, I would just dial way back. She
       acted like a jackass, and that has consequences.
       [/quote]
       No, she relayed a story about how her parents and aunt "took
       advantage" of her babysitting. OP's DD seems like a strong
       competent woman. I can't imagine the DD would be "mortified" by
       this type of banter.
       And you stated you probably wouldn't go to the shower and back
       away from the relationship. How is that not choosing to
       significantly harm the cousins' relationship?
       #Post#: 47854--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Q&A from my DD#2
   DIR By: chigger
       Date: February 24, 2020, 4:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The cousin said "she never had a weekend to herself" and that is
       why she didn't have many friends in high school. She is saying
       this to her family members staff and clients! Yes, I would be
       mortified, and I am a grown strong woman! As I have aged, I
       don't have a whole lot of patience for people who rewrite
       history to suit "their truth".  Yes, I would probably send a
       gift and not attend the shower, but that's me!
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