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       #Post#: 45345--------------------------------------------------
       How do I behave in church?
       By: Raintree Date: January 12, 2020, 4:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I will soon need to attend a church service for someone who has
       died.
       It's not my religion, and in fact I don't believe in any
       religion at all. Do I need to bow my head when prayers are said,
       and say "Amen"? I would feel like such a fake. Or is it ok to
       just sit there quietly and respectfully and let everyone else do
       whatever they feel is right for them? It's not as though this
       venue is my choice.
       Not being there is not an option, given that it's my own mother,
       who did actually privately have that faith but was not a
       churchgoer.
       There is one family member by marriage who is "born-again" and
       who has been such a self-centred jerk to everybody for years,
       who plans to do a reading at this service. I think his new-found
       piety is a way to feel all good about himself while being a
       manipulative ass. There will be good people there whose deeply
       held beliefs are genuine, and who do good deeds in life (and I
       wish to respect them), but I find him such a fake. When he
       reads, would it be acceptable to excuse myself and go to the
       bathroom in order to avoid the temptation to snort derisively?
       #Post#: 45348--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: Aleko Date: January 12, 2020, 5:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Decades ago Miss Manners was asked: what should a non-religious
       person do when everyone else at table is saying grace with heads
       bowed? She replied: Bow your head, as a gesture of respect for
       the religious activity being practised in your presence; this is
       not hypocritical, as it does not constitute a religious act on
       your own part. I think this principle covers the situation you
       describe, too. There's no need to say 'Amen'; it's very unlikely
       that anybody will notice you not doing it.
       Excusing yourself from listening to one of the readings (nobody
       will be fooled that it was a genuine call of nature) would be a
       conspicuous and obviously hostile act. But at least it's not a
       sermon composed by himself, but someone else's text; just ignore
       who is the messenger, and listen to the reading with as much (or
       as little) attention as you do all the others. FWIW, I don't
       think that any branch of the Christian religion maintains that
       the value of any of its texts is invalidated by being pronounced
       by an unworthy vessel. If the reading is in itself worthwhile,
       in theory it should not matter how selfish and hypocritical the
       reader is. That thought may be useful. If not: well, as you say
       it isn't your faith, so not your circus, not your monkeys.
       #Post#: 45358--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: gramma dishes Date: January 12, 2020, 9:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       No response (Amens or otherwise) is expected of you.  Being
       polite is. The service is to celebrate the person your mother
       was and move her toward whatever her own personal beliefs about
       an after life may include.
       Your 'reformed' married in family member will probably be in top
       pompous-assed form, but just be the more mature person and
       totally ignore him.  No matter how hard he tries, don't allow
       him to make it all about him.
       #Post#: 45360--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: pierrotlunaire0 Date: January 12, 2020, 10:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think that excusing yourself for the reading could be
       perceived as throwing down the gauntlet, so to speak. If it were
       me, I would bow me head, close my eyes, and think about my
       latest craft project. Your born again relative sounds like a
       jerk, but I think there are better venues to address the
       irritation of his behavior.
       #Post#: 45363--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: DaDancingPsych Date: January 12, 2020, 10:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I recently mentioned here that I am non-religious. I have been
       in various similar situations, including dining at the homes of
       clergymen and their families and an interested dinner with a
       handful of priests. I simply act respectful. I bow my head
       quietly. I don't think of myself as praying, but rather
       listening to the sentiments of others. (And often I don't
       disagree with what they are saying, just who they think that
       they are saying it to.) I don't say Amen or do any other
       religious acts. I just provide the space and respect for the
       others to do as they feel that they need. It has typically
       worked out well for me.
       I agree that your absence during the reading will probably be
       seen unfavorably. For your own sake, I think that the outcome
       will be less dramatic if you stay put. I would use the time to
       reflect on my own feelings about mom. If that is too hard, then
       I might focus on some other random thoughts. In other words,
       choose to not pay attention. No one needs to know that you
       weren't really listening.
       I am really sorry for the loss of your mom.
       #Post#: 45372--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: Hello Ducky Date: January 12, 2020, 11:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Just sit quietly and respectfully through the reading just like
       you are through the entire service.  Remember you're there for
       your Mom, not the relative.
       I'm so sorry for your loss.  :(
       #Post#: 45378--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: GardenGal Date: January 12, 2020, 1:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've been an atheist for 60+ years, and have sadly had to attend
       many funerals during that time.  You don't need to say anything,
       nor to bow your head.  Just sit quietly and respectfully, and
       think about the person you are there to honor and ignore any
       part of the service that you don't agree with.  I'm sure you can
       manage to "avoid the temptation to snort derisively."
       Depending on the religion of the deceased, there are different
       rituals that mourners will perform.  You are not of that
       religion, so just sit still and no one should have any reason to
       think you aren't being respectful.
       #Post#: 45410--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: Raintree Date: January 13, 2020, 2:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Aleko link=topic=1581.msg45348#msg45348
       date=1578828792]
       Decades ago Miss Manners was asked: what should a non-religious
       person do when everyone else at table is saying grace with heads
       bowed? She replied: Bow your head, as a gesture of respect for
       the religious activity being practised in your presence; this is
       not hypocritical, as it does not constitute a religious act on
       your own part. I think this principle covers the situation you
       describe, too. There's no need to say 'Amen'; it's very unlikely
       that anybody will notice you not doing it.
       Excusing yourself from listening to one of the readings (nobody
       will be fooled that it was a genuine call of nature) would be a
       conspicuous and obviously hostile act. But at least it's not a
       sermon composed by himself, but someone else's text; just ignore
       who is the messenger, and listen to the reading with as much (or
       as little) attention as you do all the others. FWIW, I don't
       think that any branch of the Christian religion maintains that
       the value of any of its texts is invalidated by being pronounced
       by an unworthy vessel. If the reading is in itself worthwhile,
       in theory it should not matter how selfish and hypocritical the
       reader is. That thought may be useful. If not: well, as you say
       it isn't your faith, so not your circus, not your monkeys.
       [/quote]
       Thank you; this is what I will follow. I don't mean any
       disrespect and I am sure it will be a lovely service.
       #Post#: 45412--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: Raintree Date: January 13, 2020, 2:32 am
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       And thank you to all responses here which I do find helpful. I
       have also felt uncomfortable in the past when people want to
       formally say grace before a meal, until I realized I can just
       agree to be thankful for the meal without its being attributed
       to a higher power.
       #Post#: 45437--------------------------------------------------
       Re: How do I behave in church?
       By: bopper Date: January 13, 2020, 12:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The minimum:  Sit quietly
       If you want to bow your head, go ahead.
       If you want to close your eyes during prayer, go ahead.
       If you want to stand when people sing, stand.
       If you want to sing when people sing, sing.
       If you want to read along during bible verses, read along.
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