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       #Post#: 45753--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I think I am just callous
       By: LifeOnPluto Date: January 17, 2020, 9:01 pm
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       [quote author=Raintree link=topic=1483.msg45344#msg45344
       date=1578824424]
       [quote author=LifeOnPluto link=topic=1483.msg45289#msg45289
       date=1578714353]
       Be careful too, of well-meaning friends who expect you to
       "emote" or otherwise be a weeping wreck. Most of my friends were
       great, but I had one rather annoying friend who took me out a
       few weeks later for a drink. I just wanted to get my life back
       into some semblance of normality. But she spent nearly the
       entire time gawping at me silently (quite literally staring
       intently into my face, waiting expectantly). I think she was
       expecting me to break down in tears at the drop of a hat. I
       almost think she was disappointed when I seemed my usual self!
       [/quote]
       Oh no, glad I haven't had to endure that!! I think some people
       just want to be some kind of emotional saviour and are
       disappointed when things really aren't that deep.  I've had
       health practitioners give me that look. You go in with a
       physical symptom and they are desperate to find some kind of
       emotional trauma behind it that they can uncover, and when they
       don't find it, seem disappointed that maybe it really is only a
       boring old pulled muscle or something.
       [/quote]
       I think that is very insightful and true!
       (And I am very sorry for the loss of your mother, but glad you
       don't have to deal with a bunch of phone calls!)
       [quote author=Soop link=topic=1483.msg45534#msg45534
       date=1579032890]
       My FIL died (it was fairly quick, but inevitable due to cancer)
       a couple of years ago. My MIL isn't one for weeping. She handled
       everything very well and might have looked uncaring to the
       outside world. When MIL was sitting with one SIL and the funeral
       director, he was going through his sales spiel...you know, for
       this $$ you can add on this service and for this $$ add on this
       other service. MIL looked at SIL and said "do you want fries
       with that?" I laughed so hard when I heard that story.
       [/quote]
       It's surprising (but sweet) that amusing moments can arise in
       times like these. When my dad died, the funeral director asked
       my family whether we'd like to keep a lock of his hair. There
       was a moment of bemused silence, then we all burst out laughing.
       The conversation then went something like:
       Me: 'How very Victorian!" (I had recently read the novel
       'Possession').
       Mum: "Well, he didn't have much hair left!"
       Brother: "Yeah, Dad was almost bald."
       Funeral Director: "Fair enough. But some people do like to keep
       a lock of hair as a keepsake."
       Me, Mum and Brother: "Thanks, but we're good!" etc.
       #Post#: 46128--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I think I am just callous
       By: ladylike123 Date: January 24, 2020, 6:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This is pretty cliche, but there's as saying that "everyone
       grieves in their own way" so you shouldn't feel bad for the way
       you are feeling or reacting to this.
       #Post#: 46324--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I think I am just callous
       By: Chez Miriam Date: January 29, 2020, 8:37 am
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       [quote author=Aleko link=topic=1483.msg45206#msg45206
       date=1578581955]
       [quote]As an adult, I was talked to differently to the child I
       was when she died: all the relatives believe she was kept alive
       so that the hospital could have the 'glory' of the Telegram from
       the Queen that 100-year-olds receive.  Now that people live so
       much longer, that seems incredible [especially having read about
       the "Liverpool Care Pathway" >:(], but I know all the
       then-adults believe that was the only reason a sick, senile,
       feeble old lady was pumped full of drugs each time she got
       pneumonia/whatever, and her heart repeatedly restarted.
       Am I just callous that I was [very belatedly] furious my
       g-grandmother's life was extended?[/quote]
       No indeed: but you just may be being unjust. We have had over
       half a century of astonishing medical advances that have
       exponentially increased the medical profession's ability to keep
       people alive; it is only very recently that the said profession
       has started to acknowledge and very cautiously grapple with the
       unprecedented situation that the most pressing problem facing it
       now is not 'how can we save people's lives?' but 'at what point
       should we give up doing that and sit on our hands, if not indeed
       take positive action to pull the plug?'. It's a minefield. Not
       only does the idea of letting patients die go against centuries
       of ethical and legal principles, it also is very often violently
       objected to by the patients' families, if not the patients
       themselves. You mentioned the Liverpool Pathway. That was an
       honest attempt in 2013 to provide a protocol for giving
       terminally-ill patients appropriate palliative care only, rather
       than trying to prolong their lives by all and every (often
       painful and undignified) means or, alternatively, shunting them
       into a side ward and forgetting about them. A number of studies
       indicated that it was beneficial; but it was sunk by a
       combination of failing hospitals not implementing it properly
       (e.g. all the stories of suffering patients left to die of
       thirst - expressly contrary to LCP protocols, but sadly not rare
       in overstretched wards) and hostile journalism.
       You don't say how long ago this was, but as we see it is still
       very hard in Britain for medical professionals to openly take
       the decision 'this patient should be allowed to die'. (And they
       all have horror stories of grieving families turning on them
       with furious accusations of 'not having done enough'.) So I
       think it highly likely that they were simply doing what they
       were trained and expected to do. It would truly amaze me if any
       hospital doctor or nurse, ever, gave a twopenny d*mn about a
       telegram from the Queen.
       Edited to add: I can imagine a doctor or nurse saying 'You never
       know, she may pull through and get her telegram from the Queen
       yet!', or some such, in an ill-judged attempt to cheer up the
       family, who promptly latched on to it as meaning that that was
       all the hospital cared about. It's also a constant problem for
       medical professionals that the families of possibly-dying
       patients are understandably in such a stressed and overwrought
       state that they very often misunderstand what the professionals
       say to them, or simply fail to register it altogether.
       [/quote]
       Once again, I love the insight I gain from wise members of this
       site!
       This happened over 45 years ago [could be nearer 50?], and as
       you say, times were different.  But I was told that the family
       repeatedly asked for her to be allowed to 'slip away', and the
       Telegram from the Queen was definitely a recurring theme, but it
       could have been intended more jokingly than the family received
       it [I remember overhearing one uncle's opinion, which was
       'salty' and not-suitable for young ears!].
       There definitely was not a "surfeit" of older people
       "bed-blocking" [I hate that phrase], so it really is a case of
       different times, different ways, and I really appreciate being
       given a different perspective on it.
       Toots: I hope your phone calls have tailed off, and you are now
       feeling more relaxed and all hints of (wrongly self-diagnosed)
       callousness have vanished from your consciousness.
       #Post#: 46385--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I think I am just callous
       By: jpcher Date: January 29, 2020, 4:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Chez Miriam link=topic=1483.msg46324#msg46324
       date=1580308651]
       Toots: I hope your phone calls have tailed off, and you are now
       feeling more relaxed and all hints of (wrongly self-diagnosed)
       callousness have vanished from your consciousness.
       [/quote]
       Thanks, Chez, for this post.
       Toots -- I'm with Chez and hope things have calmed down for you.
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