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#Post#: 45179--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: TootsNYC Date: January 8, 2020, 4:00 pm
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[quote author=syfygeek link=topic=1483.msg45162#msg45162
date=1578511702]
And it wasn't a relief that she was gone, but more of a sense of
it being right, being time, if that makes sense. And for a
change I didn't have to be strong. I didn't have to put on a
brave face while having a conversation with her when she
couldn't answer and didn't even know I was there.
[/quote]
This is exactly it.
I don't even need to be strong. All is now as it should be.
I mean, I'll get teary and emotional when I talk about him, and
about his death. But that's pretty much it.
Interestingly, I have had several moments of thinking, I'll have
to read Dad that Facebook comment from his former student. Those
have surprised me a little.
But I don't find myself upset by it in any way.
#Post#: 45192--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: MinMom3 Date: January 8, 2020, 10:28 pm
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Maybe if the slide took a while, all your urgent sorrow was gone
by the time your father actually passed away?
My mom was nearly 89 when she died, and it was a huge relief to
me. I wasn't grief stricken at all. I had been afraid she'd
outlive her money, but she didn't. I'd been afraid she might be
in pain, she wasn't. She was in hospice care, and was very well
taken care of. I felt many things, but not grief.
#Post#: 45202--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: Chez Miriam Date: January 9, 2020, 4:50 am
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Reading the replies to this thread reminded me of how I felt
about my great-grandmother's "life". She was resuscitated
repeated times, and kept alive until she was 99 [I think; it may
have been 98].
As an adult, I was talked to differently to the child I was when
she died: all the relatives believe she was kept alive so that
the hospital could have the 'glory' of the Telegram from the
Queen that 100-year-olds receive. Now that people live so much
longer, that seems incredible [especially having read about the
"Liverpool Care Pathway" >:(], but I know all the then-adults
believe that was the only reason a sick, senile, feeble old lady
was pumped full of drugs each time she got pneumonia/whatever,
and her heart repeatedly restarted.
Am I just callous that I was [very belatedly] furious my
g-grandmother's life was extended?
Maybe, but her time was clearly up several times before, and the
pain to my grandmother who visited at least once a day was
prolonged. The acceptance part of grieving was most definitely
accomplished by the family long before her death; what was left
was the weariness caused by her prolonged existence.
I was thinking about lowspark's comment above:
[quote author=lowspark link=topic=1483.msg45158#msg45158
date=1578504660]
I'm sort of surprised that with today's technology, that many
people call. I would never think to call someone with
condolences nowadays. I'd text most likely, or email maybe. And
that's only if I couldn't attend the funeral or memorial
service, *and* if I were close enough to feel like I ought to
communicate directly. Otherwise I'd send a card via snail mail.
[/quote]
My guess would be that some/most of the calls Toots has been
receiving may have been from contemporaries of her father. My
mum has friends who email/text, but would no more dream of
texting a condolence message than mooning in church! That
generation would have written, I'm sure, but the other thread
about cataract surgery reminds me that most of the older ladies
I know don't necessarily see well enough to write a letter these
days, so calling by phone may be their 'best effort' to convey
their sadness?
I don't know, but it's a possibility. I wrote to a friend of
the family [in her late 80s] after her husband's death, but I
texted/emailed my cousins following their father's final slip
away [he'd been blind/senile/bedridden, so it wasn't necessarily
a 'tragic loss'], so I suppose I tailor my condolences to the
recipient. :-\ I probably get it all wrong, but I know at least
I've tried my best.
#Post#: 45206--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: Aleko Date: January 9, 2020, 8:59 am
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[quote]As an adult, I was talked to differently to the child I
was when she died: all the relatives believe she was kept alive
so that the hospital could have the 'glory' of the Telegram from
the Queen that 100-year-olds receive. Now that people live so
much longer, that seems incredible [especially having read about
the "Liverpool Care Pathway" >:(], but I know all the
then-adults believe that was the only reason a sick, senile,
feeble old lady was pumped full of drugs each time she got
pneumonia/whatever, and her heart repeatedly restarted.
Am I just callous that I was [very belatedly] furious my
g-grandmother's life was extended?[/quote]
No indeed: but you just may be being unjust. We have had over
half a century of astonishing medical advances that have
exponentially increased the medical profession's ability to keep
people alive; it is only very recently that the said profession
has started to acknowledge and very cautiously grapple with the
unprecedented situation that the most pressing problem facing it
now is not 'how can we save people's lives?' but 'at what point
should we give up doing that and sit on our hands, if not indeed
take positive action to pull the plug?'. It's a minefield. Not
only does the idea of letting patients die go against centuries
of ethical and legal principles, it also is very often violently
objected to by the patients' families, if not the patients
themselves. You mentioned the Liverpool Pathway. That was an
honest attempt in 2013 to provide a protocol for giving
terminally-ill patients appropriate palliative care only, rather
than trying to prolong their lives by all and every (often
painful and undignified) means or, alternatively, shunting them
into a side ward and forgetting about them. A number of studies
indicated that it was beneficial; but it was sunk by a
combination of failing hospitals not implementing it properly
(e.g. all the stories of suffering patients left to die of
thirst - expressly contrary to LCP protocols, but sadly not rare
in overstretched wards) and hostile journalism.
You don't say how long ago this was, but as we see it is still
very hard in Britain for medical professionals to openly take
the decision 'this patient should be allowed to die'. (And they
all have horror stories of grieving families turning on them
with furious accusations of 'not having done enough'.) So I
think it highly likely that they were simply doing what they
were trained and expected to do. It would truly amaze me if any
hospital doctor or nurse, ever, gave a twopenny d*mn about a
telegram from the Queen.
Edited to add: I can imagine a doctor or nurse saying 'You never
know, she may pull through and get her telegram from the Queen
yet!', or some such, in an ill-judged attempt to cheer up the
family, who promptly latched on to it as meaning that that was
all the hospital cared about. It's also a constant problem for
medical professionals that the families of possibly-dying
patients are understandably in such a stressed and overwrought
state that they very often misunderstand what the professionals
say to them, or simply fail to register it altogether.
#Post#: 45209--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: TootsNYC Date: January 9, 2020, 10:15 am
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[quote author=Chez Miriam link=topic=1483.msg45202#msg45202
date=1578567044]
My guess would be that some/most of the calls Toots has been
receiving may have been from contemporaries of her father. My
mum has friends who email/text, but would no more dream of
texting a condolence message than mooning in church! That
generation would have written, I'm sure, but the other thread
about cataract surgery reminds me that most of the older ladies
I know don't necessarily see well enough to write a letter these
days, so calling by phone may be their 'best effort' to convey
their sadness?
I don't know, but it's a possibility. I wrote to a friend of
the family [in her late 80s] after her husband's death, but I
texted/emailed my cousins following their father's final slip
away [he'd been blind/senile/bedridden, so it wasn't necessarily
a 'tragic loss'], so I suppose I tailor my condolences to the
recipient. :-\ I probably get it all wrong, but I know at least
I've tried my best.
[/quote]
They're actually all of them my ILs' family, which has very
strong European roots (they are the first generation--the
escaped from communist Yugoslavia, or came over after it fell).
To them, it is so very important to acknowledge death, and they
have pretty strong views about what's appropriate.
So they're all rushing to say something to me, because they care
about me, and they think this is devastating, and I think they
view the phone call as MUCH more personal and loving than an
impersonal letter. (And of course, I don't want to respond to
them by showing the mild annoyance that I feel at fielding a
relatively useless convo; I do keep their perspective in mind)
#Post#: 45223--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: jpcher Date: January 9, 2020, 4:29 pm
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[quote author=TootsNYC link=topic=1483.msg45209#msg45209
date=1578586540]
They're actually all of them my ILs' family, which has very
strong European roots (they are the first generation--the
escaped from communist Yugoslavia, or came over after it fell).
To them, it is so very important to acknowledge death, and they
have pretty strong views about what's appropriate.
So they're all rushing to say something to me, because they care
about me, and they think this is devastating, and I think they
view the phone call as MUCH more personal and loving than an
impersonal letter. (And of course, I don't want to respond to
them by showing the mild annoyance that I feel at fielding a
relatively useless convo; I do keep their perspective in mind)
[/quote]
Thank you for posting this Toots. It gives a bit more
clarification as in the calls you are receiving are for them. To
make them feel they did their duty (not that the calls weren't
truly caring or thoughtfully meant for you to feel less
grieved), tradition stands strong.
Perhaps if you put that spin on their calls it might calm you a
bit. "I can deal with this because these are people I love. The
calls are what they need to do to help them through their
grief."
Maybe next time you receive one of these calls instead of saying
"Thank you for your thoughts, I'm okay" turn it around and ask
"How are you doing? I'm sorry for your loss." Make the call
about them instead of you.
Or not.
That being said, I getcha. You are not callous, you just don't
want to play-act your grief up to what is deemed to be normal.
Be comfortable with you doing you.
#Post#: 45234--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: RubyCat Date: January 9, 2020, 8:39 pm
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I agree, you're not callous at all. As others have said, we all
grieve in our own way.
When my father died in his early 90's and people offered
condolences, I'd thank them but tell them that it was not a
tragedy. He'd led a good, full life and I was so grateful to
have him for as long as I did. It set the right tone and the
conversation usually took on a more positive turn after that.
Hugs. Even when we're at peace with a loved ones passing, we
miss them.
#Post#: 45289--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: LifeOnPluto Date: January 10, 2020, 9:45 pm
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Toots, I am sorry for your loss. For what it's worth, you come
across on these boards as a very strong and confident person,
but definitely not callous.
I get how you feel about the phone calls. My dad died suddenly a
couple of years ago at the relatively young age of 67. I found
that I much preferred texts, emails and cards, to chatting on
the phone. Especially as some people started asking rather
intrusive questions. Eg "How did he die? Was it sudden? What is
your family going to with his model train collection? I could
come around and look at it, if you like." etc.
Be careful too, of well-meaning friends who expect you to
"emote" or otherwise be a weeping wreck. Most of my friends were
great, but I had one rather annoying friend who took me out a
few weeks later for a drink. I just wanted to get my life back
into some semblance of normality. But she spent nearly the
entire time gawping at me silently (quite literally staring
intently into my face, waiting expectantly). I think she was
expecting me to break down in tears at the drop of a hat. I
almost think she was disappointed when I seemed my usual self!
#Post#: 45290--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: BrownEyedGirl Date: January 10, 2020, 9:54 pm
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You're definitely not callous! As others have said, everyone
deals with things in their own way, and everyone does what they
need to do in order to get through the loss of a loved one. I
am sorry for your loss; even though you're doing okay, it's
still a loss and it is and will be an adjustment. But it sounds
like you have good support and that is so important! I also hope
you have good memories of your dad to look back on and share
with others.
#Post#: 45342--------------------------------------------------
Re: I think I am just callous
By: Raintree Date: January 12, 2020, 4:03 am
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I can relate!!
My mother passed away this past weekend too. She had cancer, and
she was in her late 80s. I don't feel she was "ready to go" in
that she was an unusually youthful 80-something, till the cancer
came that IMO could have been dealt with if caught earlier; she
went downhill rapidly and it was horrible to see her in her last
days, and a relief when it was over.
I'm grieving but not wallowing in pain. It's been an absolutely
exhausting year as we sold her house, dealt with her
possessions, looked after her, worked our actual jobs while
navigating endless medical appointments, moved her again when
she became too ill to function, dealt with more possessions,
etc.
And now I'm tasked with sifting through the piles of my own
stuff I haven't dealt with (oh, I moved too), paperwork to do,
people to notify, etc. I'm doing okay. But reading your post,
all I can say is,
I'M SO RELIEVED I DON'T HAVE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE PHONING ME!!!!!!!
Because it's been like that the whole year. Every time there was
a new development, like her being hospitalized, I had so many
people asking for updates! Constantly. You know when there's an
unexpected trip to the hospital, and you have to go back to that
parent's home to get things they want from there, go feed the
cat, move a few things in and out of the home, it's been a full
day and you really just need to get home and get your own
dinner, having missed lunch, and all the neighbours are stopping
you wanting 20 minutes of chatter:
"What happened? How's your mom? How's she doing? Let me know if
there's anything I can do. I know it's a hard time for you, but
we care, you take care of yourself, too...make time for you. I
understand because when my mother was ill, she.....it's a trying
time for families. All the best. All right, I know you have to
go. Oh and.....(another 5 minutes of it...)"
We were literally moving the last items of furniture into a
rented van which we were paying for by the hour, helped out by a
friend who was VERY busy but taking time out of his day to help,
when one neighbour decides to just stand in the doorway offering
condolences and just wouldn't quit.
Another, who only vaguely knew my mother, would call out across
the parking lot "HOW'S YOUR MOM???????" Every. Single. Time. She
saw me. What am I supposed to say? She's not well. She's going
to die. Do I have to have a conversation about it every time? I
was starting to feel like I had to sneak in and out at non-peak
times in order to avoid notice.
That being said, I appreciate the thought, and that people mean
well, but cards, emails, FB Messenger, text, are all preferred.
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