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#Post#: 43679--------------------------------------------------
NYC subway "drama"
By: Songbird Date: December 13, 2019, 9:28 am
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[attachimg=2]
It's rush hour and the subway is fairly crowed. Several of us
get onto the train and scramble to find seats -- there are still
a few scattered seats. On one bench there is a gentleman in a
black coat sitting at the end of the bench, next to the door.
The seat next to him is empty. In the next seat there is a
young man in a hoodie. The seat after that is also empty. The
rest of the bench is occupied.
The young man in the hoodie is "manspreading", taking up part of
the two empty seats as well as his own.
I walk over to the bench where the young man is seated and say
"excuse me". The young man doesn't move. I squeeze myself into
the seat between the young man and the gentleman in the black
coat. The young man moves over to make additional room for me
to sit.
The gentleman in the black coat says "You should have said
'excuse me'. Don't you have any manners?"
I reply "I did say it." He makes another remark about manners
and turns back to his newspaper.
Subway cars are noisy, and I am somewhat soft-spoken,but the
volume at which the gentleman was speaking suggests he didn't
hear me because he has a hearing impairment.
So I am left wondering if the young man in the hoodie didn't
hear me, or if he chose to ignore me. Should I have asked again
before I sat down? I was standing right in front of him. Maybe
he should have assumed I wanted to sit and moved over without
being asked? and should the gentleman in the black coat have
called me out for my perceived bad manners?
#Post#: 43680--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: Hanna Date: December 13, 2019, 9:43 am
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Sounds like they either did not hear you or else they just
didn't want to make it easy on you to sit. You will never know.
Manners also means paying attention when we are using shared
resources or taking up more space than one person is due, in
case someone else wants the space. The man's comment was rude.
He should have moved without being asked, should assume the best
of others and also should not be telling anyone else how to
behave.
Living in the greatest city in the world (says me), with all of
it's humanity, could drive you crazy if you worry about these
little interactions. You are likely to encounter rudeness and
judgement on a daily basis. You did nothing wrong here.
It's such an amazing place, though. I wish I was there in the
city to enjoy the holiday cheer!
#Post#: 43682--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: Songbird Date: December 13, 2019, 9:53 am
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[quote author=Hanna link=topic=1438.msg43680#msg43680
date=1576251831]
Sounds like they either did not have heard you or else they just
didn't want to make it easy on your to sit. You will never know.
Manners also means paying attention when they are using shared
resources and taking up more space than they are due, in case
someone else wants the space. The man's comment was rude. He
should have moved without being asked, should assume the best of
others and also should not be telling anyone else how to behave.
Living in the greatest city in the world (says me), with all of
it's humanity, could drive you crazy if you worry about these
little interactions. You are likely to encounter rudeness and
judgement on a daily basis. You did nothing wrong here.
It's such an amazing place, though. I wish I was there in the
city to enjoy the holiday cheer!
[/quote]
Holiday cheer? Seems the rudeness factor goes up around here
when dealing with holiday crowds. but the city is very pretty
right now.
#Post#: 43683--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: bopper Date: December 13, 2019, 10:04 am
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I am just looking at the Continental Ads (now United).
#Post#: 43684--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: Songbird Date: December 13, 2019, 10:36 am
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[quote author=bopper link=topic=1438.msg43683#msg43683
date=1576253079]
I am just looking at the Continental Ads (now United).
[/quote]
LOL, it was the best photo I could find to illustrate the
situation.
#Post#: 43685--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: TootsNYC Date: December 13, 2019, 11:03 am
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I think the man in the coat just wasn't paying attention, and he
assumed that if he didn't notice it, it must not have happened.
That's a particular kind of arrogance.
I think also, just standing in front of an open seat, facing it,
in the posture that I'm sure you had, is actually (in NYC) a
nonverbal "excuse me."
(My dad once remarked, upon visiting from Iowa, that people in
NYC don't say "excuse me" if they get in your way and have to
move for you; they say "I'm sorry." I told him, "That's because
in NYC, 'excuse me' means 'get out of my way,' in varying
degrees of pleasantness based on the tone."(
#Post#: 43686--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: Hmmm Date: December 13, 2019, 11:09 am
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The man in the black coat was rude for trying to call you out on
manners.
The man in the hoodie was rude for taking more than his space.
(hoodie guy could have had earphones on too)
I probably would have went on a tirade to the man in the black
coat about manners which include:
1. Being aware of those around you and trying to accommodate
your fellow passengers if possible.
2. That it is very improper to correct others on their manners.
3. Suggest that he read Miss Manners instead of the paper he is
reading.
#Post#: 43687--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: Hmmm Date: December 13, 2019, 11:10 am
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The man in the black coat was rude for trying to call you out on
manners.
The man in the hoodie was rude for taking more than his space.
(hoodie guy could have had earphones on too)
I probably would have went on a tirade to the man in the black
coat about manners which include:
1. Being aware of those around you and trying to accommodate
your fellow passengers if possible.
2. That it is very improper to correct others on their manners.
3. Suggest that he read Miss Manners instead of the paper he is
reading.
edited to add: this would have really irritated me and the man
might have learned to "not engage the crazy"... with the crazy
being me till the next stop.
#Post#: 43699--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: lowspark Date: December 13, 2019, 12:08 pm
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Yeah, it's the subway. People want to sit if they can. This is
not something that should come as a surprise to people.
If you hadn't said, "excuse me", what's the big deal about that?
I mean, sure it's nice to, but if they guy didn't hear you, then
he should just suck it up. Making the comment about manners is
not only rude, it's just plain silly!
As we used to say when I was young, "That's life in the big
city!" Man in the black coat needs to get over himself. You did
nothing wrong.
#Post#: 43704--------------------------------------------------
Re: NYC subway "drama"
By: DaDancingPsych Date: December 13, 2019, 12:21 pm
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My understanding of etiquette is that we don't point out others'
etiquette errors (at least IRL... fair game here!) So even if
you had just plopped yourself down, I think that the man in the
black coat needed to give you some grace. There could have been
a number of reasons (including not hearing you) that he did not
witness the request for pardoning.
And I'm not totally convinced that etiquette says that you owed
anyone any comment. You were able to squeeze in, so I think you
would have been fine to just sit. (Had you accidentally bumped
into one of them, I think one would have been owed.) But
beforehand, you only owe a request to be pardoned if you
actually need the person to move (versus shoving them out of the
way.) You didn't need this to make your squeeze.
And if you ask me, manspreading on a crowded subway is rude. If
the car is empty, make yourself comfortable. But if people are
going to want the seat next to you, keep it available.
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