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#Post#: 43115--------------------------------------------------
"it is time to back off a little bit" (death mentioned
)
By: Isisnin Date: December 3, 2019, 7:55 pm
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long, please bear with. I need help responding to a "back off"
email
A couple months back, my sister told the family that she was
terminally ill. It was a shock. We didn't hear from her for a
bit (she is a widow living in another country, no kids fyi). I
assumed she needed some space, but one day I called and she
didn't answer. Something made me call her local hospital. She
was there and fine (considering), just dehydrated.
In our conservation she told me that she had designated me as
her next of kin. Any next of kin type issues/questions would be
directed to me. Ok. I never told my other siblings about this.
Sadly, she passed away a few days ago. I've been getting the
next of kin questions from sister's in-laws. On occasion, I
would check on whatever with my other siblings, so they knew
this was going on, but again I never specifically said "sister
made me her next of kin decision maker."
The in-laws are having a "celebration of life" for sister in
their country. The family here will so the same. My brother and
I were discussing when and how we would have our memorial. I
mentioned checking with the funeral home in other country as to
whether or not there is any coverage for final expense. He
thought that was fine. The answer was that there is no insurance
and "everything is now frozen". On forwarding the answer to my
brother, I said I presume that means the funeral home will make
a claim to sister's estate and that we could probably contact
sister's attorney and let him know we would be doing so also for
sister's hometown celebration of life.
Here is brother's response to me: "Thank you for all you've
done, but I think it is time to back off a little bit and let
things be taken care of." He went on to say that we didn't have
any say in "other country stuff", it will be handled by the
people in "other country". "I am sure that if anyone in (other
country) needs us to do anything regarding the estate, finances,
or services we will be contacted." Regarding the cost of our
memorial for sister, he said "we can either split the cost or
(my wife) and myself will simply pay for it.".
In less than 24 hrs, he went from agreeing we should inquire
about covering final expenses to telling me to "back off" and
also presuming I'm telling the in-laws what to do in their own
country. I am not. All the in-laws plans and actions are
strictly their own ideas. He also seems to think I am reluctant
to spend money on a memorial service for sister. I am not. I
figure if the other service is being paid for from sister's
estate, why shouldn't her hometown service be paid out of her
estate (which brother originally agreed with).
Brother closed his email saying that when "the time is
appropriate", we will contact other country and ask for sister's
ashes to be sent "here". "If you want, I will contact (in-laws)
and ask about that." (as I said, other siblings know in-laws
were asking me). Well, brother did not wait for my response, but
emailed the in-laws asking them to send the ashes here but that
"we don't need much". The appropriate time brother chose for
this email? 3 and a half hours before the in-laws celebration of
life is scheduled to start. I kid you not. This was my response
to that email (copied his wife and our other sister and her
husband as he did):
"Regarding your email (to the in laws) about sister's ashes.
This is has been covered and they are having their ceremony in
3 and a half hrs.
Let's give them some space for the rest of their day
Thx"
Now I am home from work and need to compose a response to his
email to me telling me to "back off". It seems very
inconsiderate to switch next of kin to brother while in laws are
dealing with their own grief and planning. Not to mention, it is
doubtful that next of kins are switchable. Why put the in laws
in such an awkward position?
Also, I want to include older sister on my response as she is
part of this (she wasn't copied on prior emails about expenses).
She may need to be the tie breaker on whether or not to send our
memorial service expenses to the estate attorney. And she too
should know that sister designated me as next of kin.
Sooo some ideas on a response? Grateful for any help.
#Post#: 43117--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: TootsNYC Date: December 3, 2019, 8:05 pm
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“next of kin” is not necessarily a legal status; designating
“next of kin” to the hospital doesn’t have anything to do with
“executor of the estate.”
It’s all so indistinct to me, in terms of official roles, that I
don’t know how to advise you.
I guess you could say, “when I spoke to Sister in Month, she
told me that [insert her words here, as close as you can
remember them]. Because of that, I have considered it my duty to
her to be involved in some of the memorial-planning issues.
Neither of us has officially been appointed her representative,
but her words to me are as close as we can get.
“I would like for us to operate in a more united manner. You
have misconstrued both my words and my intentions, and your own
communications with her family in the other country have no
represented us in a good light either.
“Please let us communicate more cooperatively, and please
don’t make assumptions about my motivations. I find it really
hurtful that you have started shutting me out.”
I don’t know if any of that is too harsh, though. It’s just off
the top of my head.
#Post#: 43128--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: Isisnin Date: December 3, 2019, 11:48 pm
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Thanks. I particularly like "you've misconstrued both my words
and my intentions". I'm drafting something and will be using
some of your suggestions
#Post#: 43129--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: Hanna Date: December 4, 2019, 12:50 am
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Can you call him instead of writing? Normally in a complicated
situation I find a phone to clear things up quickly. But it
depends on the person and relationship.
#Post#: 43131--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: lakey Date: December 4, 2019, 1:41 am
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I agree with Hanna. A written response could come across as a
bit cold. If you talk to your brother, you can soften the tone.
Of course that depends on your relationship. The person who will
deal with financing the celebration of life from the estate
would be the executor of the will. Do you know if your sister
prepared a will, named an executor, and the name of the lawyer
who prepared it? If you don't know any of that, and the
celebration of life doesn't cost an enormous amount of money, it
may be less stressful to simply plan the event and split the
costs among the siblings. You can always reimburse yourself when
the estate is settled.
People tend to get emotional during times like this. Please try
to work together with your brother. He does appear to want to
take charge, but in the end, the important thing is to remember
and honor your sister. If he is a bit pushy, it might be easier
on you to just let it go.
#Post#: 43136--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: Isisnin Date: December 4, 2019, 7:05 am
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Considering that my brother about faced on the prior phone
conversation we had, emailing him would be better. Additionally,
my other, older sister needs be included and brought up to date
on what has been happening. For our parents in the past, we did
all work mutually together. So older sister should know that
brother has decided to step in and not utilize estate funds.
Sister did not name an executioner of her estate. But her funds
and house are managed by a trust which is controlled by three
people in other country, including her attorney.
#Post#: 43138--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: Hmmm Date: December 4, 2019, 9:19 am
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I'm very sorry for your loss. I am sure it is very difficult
dealing with the loss of a loved one who was living in a
different country.
I will give you my perspective based on the information you have
shared to attempt to give some insight to your brother's
actions. They could be completely off.
If I had been your brother and was getting emails from you with
suggestions of contacting her attorney to make a claim against
the estate within a week of sister's death, I probably too would
have been counseling you to back off. Your brother wasn't aware
your sister had asked for you to act as her representative in
your home country. Was he aware you were in contact with the
inlaws? He was reacting to only the information he had. And to
me there is a difference between contacting the funeral home
asking a question and the decision to contact the attorney to
inform of a request to make a claim against the estate. One is
an inquiry, the other is an action and decision. And to me, it
does also give the impression that you
I agree a phone call would be better. But if an email is
required, I think a:
Brother, I realize you are not aware that sister asked me to be
her next of kin for our country. Inlaws were aware of this and
we have been in contact discussing the arrangements. I should
have made both you and sister aware of her request for me to act
as the next of kin. I will continue to keep you informed, and of
course, coordinate decisions with both of you. But I request you
not contact the inlaws directly as it could be confusing who is
their primary point of contact with our family.
#Post#: 43155--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: JeanFromBNA Date: December 4, 2019, 12:47 pm
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Isisnin, I'm sorry for the loss of your dear sister.
Part of the problem is that I don't understand your legal
position in your sister's estate, or if you have any. She may
have named you next of kin while she was hospitalized, but that
may have ended when she passed. You should speak with her
attorney in that country for clarification; I think that will
help a great deal.
Will the memorial service at home include internment of the
ashes, or necessitate the services of a licensed professional,
like a funeral director? If so, I think that it's reasonable to
ask for that money from the estate. The timing of asking for
and getting that reimbursement will probably be dependent upon
that country's laws regarding probate, so it won't matter if you
wait a little while to do it.
If the memorial service is only a gathering of family and
friends in your country, then I wouldn't feel comfortable asking
for reimbursement for those expenses from the estate, unless
your sister had expensive specific requests for her memorial.
Otherwise, this is just what we do for our loved ones. If a
funeral director is making a claim against the estate in that
country, that's just how it ended up. They may have been
legally required to use the services of a professional, and if
you are, too, you can ask for reimbursement later.
If it's a combination of both, then it may be reasonable to
still ask for reimbursement for some expenses.
#Post#: 43157--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: TootsNYC Date: December 4, 2019, 12:57 pm
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[quote]If the memorial service is only a gathering of family and
friends in your country, then I wouldn't feel comfortable asking
for reimbursement for those expenses from the estate,[/quote]
When the elderly lady next door to me died, I was having a
conversation with the conservator who was also serving as
executor, or at least watching over things until the executor
took over.
Someone had suggested that the estate pay for the lady's regular
caregiver to travel to Arlington Cemetery for her interment.
The conservator said, "The estate can't pay it. It's frozen
until probate is done. And even if I were still in charge, I'm
only allowed to pay out money that directly benefits Beverly.
Beverly doesn't get any benefit from sending the caregiver to
the funeral, because Beverly's dead."
And once the person dies, it becomes an estate, which is often
not very liquid. An executor might be able to spend from the
estate for things like the mortgage.
But a memorial service for her family in the country she doesn't
live in is probably not something there's even a legal way to
pay for. The executor has to justify every expense they make
from someone's estate.
This is a different country, so some things may be different,
but some of them will not be.
#Post#: 43158--------------------------------------------------
Re: "it is time to back off a little bit" (death menti
oned)
By: QueenFaninCA Date: December 4, 2019, 1:03 pm
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I agree with what what Jean from BNA says.
[quote author=Isisnin link=topic=1427.msg43115#msg43115
date=1575424511]
Brother closed his email saying that when "the time is
appropriate", we will contact other country and ask for sister's
ashes to be sent "here".
[/quote]
Unless this has been discussed with family there before her
death, I would discuss this with them right now. Different
countries have different customs and regulations. In some
countries the ashes have to be interred in a cemetery or placed
in a mausoleum/colombarium but you are by law forbidden from
keeping them at home. In a country like that you would have to
make arrangements with the funeral home/crematorium to send them
to you straight from the funeral home.
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