DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Bad Manners and Brimstone
HTML https://badmanners.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Holidays
*****************************************************
#Post#: 43241--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: lisastitch Date: December 5, 2019, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's one thing to host a dinner. If DH and I decide to invite
people for dinner, we get to decide who to invite, the date and
time, the menu. It's all our choice (within pretty broad
limits).
If we offer to host a traditional meal (Thanksgiving, Christmas,
Easter), we do not have the same flexibility. There are
expectations for the people, the time, the menu. We can't say,
"Lets's not invite Uncle Art--I don't want to listen to him
going on about what he's able to eat" or "I don't feel like
turkey. Let's do lasagna".
If Will and Cathy want to change things up, they really need to
get buy-in from the extended family, and not do a
bait-and-switch. Otherwise--as indeed happened--they will get
push-back.
Traditions can/do/should change, and there are times that the
change is forced on us, but I think it's appropriate to be
sensitive to other people's reactions to those changes. When
we've invited someone for Christmas dinner and they ask what
they can bring, my usual answer is, "We're serving this menu.
What do you need to have on the table to make it feel like
Christmas? Bring that."
#Post#: 43242--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: TootsNYC Date: December 5, 2019, 1:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
especially timing! That's an even bigger deal to change, because
people build so many other traditions around it.
Not that it can't be done, but as lisastitch points out, it's
not a personal dinner party.
#Post#: 43255--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: Winterlight Date: December 5, 2019, 5:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1418.msg43213#msg43213
date=1575542044]
[quote]People are entitled to celebrate any way they want, or
not at all. If you want a casual eggs and waffles brunch
instead of a Christmas dinner, that's just fine. I have a
friend who always goes with her daughter for dim sum in a
restaurant instead of a turkey dinner for Thanksgiving. But I
don't blame a guest for feeling like they are missing something
special and important, not just a particular menu, if they don't
want to give up their traditional holiday plans for that, even
if they would love it some other time. [/quote]
I have a friend who when single lived for many years in south
London a couple of streets away from her widowed mother. On
Christmas Day, if the weather was good, their ritual was to take
a walk over Tooting Common, enjoying the nature, to a pub on the
other side where they would sit with a pint and bag of crisps
celebrating the fact that they were possibly the only women of
turkey-roasting age in Tooting who had the leisure to go to a
pub - there were never any other adult women there - then back
again to her place where a nice lasagne or something else of a
similarly undemanding nature was keeping hot in the oven for
their dinner. It suited them: but if they had been thoughtless
enough to invite anyone else to 'Come and have Christmas dinner
with us!' without explaining what that was going to consist of,
that person would have had a right to feel somewhat misled, not
to say short-changed.
[/quote]
I love this tradition!
I am Jewish, so I tend to turn my solo Christmas into a spa day.
Facials, hair treatments, whatever I want to do. Meals are
spa-like for the most part, smoothies and such. Dinner tends to
be a bit fancier, but it's whatever I'm fancying that year. Last
year I made beef stroganoff in the slow cooker, the year before
it was was a mushroom pasta dish. Everything is delicious, but I
would not invite a guest without letting them know upfront what
they would be eating, because someone whose taste buds were
primed for turkey would be very disappointed to see my
stroganoff.
#Post#: 43276--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: oogyda Date: December 6, 2019, 7:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Gellchom link=topic=1418.msg43239#msg43239
date=1575574193]
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1418.msg43187#msg43187
date=1575499786]
[quote] Unless the time change made it difficult for most people
to attend I think it was very rude to complain about what Will
and Cathy had planned. Would the elders in this family like it
if someone tried to dictate how they hosted in their own home?
My guess would be no.[/quote]
But 'dictating how they host in their own home' is not what
anyone is doing. They are objecting to the blatant
bait-and-switch that Will and Cathy pulled on the whole family.
If, when the family was discussing 'who will host the usual
Christmas lunch for the extended family this year?' they had
said 'Let's do something different this year! Why don't you all
come to our place on Christmas Day and we'll give you a brunch
of scrambled eggs, mushrooms and French Toast!' that would have
been fair enough: though, given that a number of the relatives
dislike the idea, it's clear that the answer would have been
'Thanks but no thanks'. That's not 'dictating'. But offering one
thing and then, when everyone is committed to it, substituting
something radically different - now that is rude.
[/quote]
Well put. Here is what the OP put in the first post (emphasis
added):
[quote]My extended family always gets together for Christmas
lunch, with each family unit taking turns to host. Lunch is
always very traditional - turkey, roast potatoes, vegetables,
followed by pudding and trifle, etc. Everyone brings a dish, but
the hosts always do the main dish, which is the turkey.
This year, my cousin "Will" and his new wife "Cathy" volunteered
to host (they've recently bought a new house). However, when
they sent around the email invitation, they invited everyone for
"Christmas Brunch", and announced that they'd be serving
scrambled eggs, mushrooms and French Toast![/quote]
Given those facts, I can certainly understand why Mom decided to
host the traditional Christmas lunch the family was apparently
expecting. In fact, I think it was nice of her to do so in
addition to, and not at the same time as, Will and Cathy's
brunch, instead of saying, "Your brunch sounds lovely, and we'd
love to do it some other time. But that's not what we all
expected when we accepted your offer to host this year; please
either do it our traditional way, or let someone else do it."
Even that would not have been so bad, in my opinion. It's not
just Will and Cathy's party; it's the family's Christmas.
That said, I also think it would have been okay for Will and
Cathy to suggest a brunch instead of the usual lunch; if others
liked the idea, then fine. But I agree that offering to host the
annual lunch and then just announcing a major change like that
was indeed a bait and switch with regard to this family's
holiday tradition.
[/quote]
But Mom didn't invite the family to her lunch. She invited
neighbors. It doesn't appear she wanted to provide the
traditional lunch to her family.
#Post#: 43283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: Aleko Date: December 6, 2019, 9:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]But Mom didn't invite the family to her lunch. She
invited neighbors. It doesn't appear she wanted to provide the
traditional lunch to her family. [/quote]
I don't think Gellchom meant that sentence of her post to be
read that way: rather that along with all the family Mom had
been expecting a traditional meal, and decided to prepare one
herself. Maybe she wished she could invite the family, but
wanted to keep the peace; she knew perfectly well how hostile an
act it would be to invite everyone to come straight on from Will
and Cathy's event to have a 'proper Christmas lunch at my
place'.
#Post#: 43289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: Jem Date: December 6, 2019, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1418.msg43283#msg43283
date=1575647374]
[quote]But Mom didn't invite the family to her lunch. She
invited neighbors. It doesn't appear she wanted to provide the
traditional lunch to her family. [/quote]
I don't think Gellchom meant that sentence of her post to be
read that way: rather that along with all the family Mom had
been expecting a traditional meal, and decided to prepare one
herself. Maybe she wished she could invite the family, but
wanted to keep the peace; she knew perfectly well how hostile an
act it would be to invite everyone to come straight on from Will
and Cathy's event to have a 'proper Christmas lunch at my
place'.
[/quote]
“Proper Christmas lunch” comes across to me as similar to a
“bikini body.” How do you get a “bikini body?” You put a bikini
on your body.
So to me, how do you have a “proper Christmas lunch?” You have a
lunch/brunch/dinner to celebrate Christmas. My family rarely
celebrates Christmas with a dinner on Christmas Eve or Day. We
have had all sorts of things to eat over the years, including
gourmet Mac and Cheese. Does that mean we never have a proper
Christmas dinner? I don’t think so. I think the point is to
celebrate the holiday with family and/or friends, not to eat
specific foods and specific times.
#Post#: 43290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: Hmmm Date: December 6, 2019, 11:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=lisastitch link=topic=1418.msg43241#msg43241
date=1575575320]
It's one thing to host a dinner. If DH and I decide to invite
people for dinner, we get to decide who to invite, the date and
time, the menu. It's all our choice (within pretty broad
limits).
If we offer to host a traditional meal (Thanksgiving, Christmas,
Easter), we do not have the same flexibility. There are
expectations for the people, the time, the menu. We can't say,
"Lets's not invite Uncle Art--I don't want to listen to him
going on about what he's able to eat" or "I don't feel like
turkey. Let's do lasagna".
If Will and Cathy want to change things up, they really need to
get buy-in from the extended family, and not do a
bait-and-switch. Otherwise--as indeed happened--they will get
push-back.
Traditions can/do/should change, and there are times that the
change is forced on us, but I think it's appropriate to be
sensitive to other people's reactions to those changes. When
we've invited someone for Christmas dinner and they ask what
they can bring, my usual answer is, "We're serving this menu.
What do you need to have on the table to make it feel like
Christmas? Bring that."
[/quote]
I don't it is fair to call Will and Cathy's invitation a bait
and switch. They communicated their plans at least 6 or more
weeks in advance. Yes, it was via the emailed invitation and
when family whined and complained, they acquiesced and changed
back to the norm. If they'd circulated an email asking
everyone's opinion of the planned change, the results would have
been the same. Bait and switch would have been to not notify
family members at all about their preferred method of
entertaining the family.
Also, no one seems to think about that the traditional 1pm
Christmas lunch is a long family tradition for either Will or
Cathy. One of them married into this set in stone tradition. A
Christmas Brunch might well be the other's Family of Origin
tradition.
I think the most gracious thing for all family members involved
would have been to accept the invitation as offered. And if a
traditional meal is still desired, host one yourself on
Christmas Eve or do a Christmas Dinner later in the day so that
your not rushing from a brunch to a 1pm lunch.
#Post#: 43292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: TootsNYC Date: December 6, 2019, 11:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1418.msg43289#msg43289
date=1575650882]
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1418.msg43283#msg43283
date=1575647374]
[quote]But Mom didn't invite the family to her lunch. She
invited neighbors. It doesn't appear she wanted to provide the
traditional lunch to her family. [/quote]
I don't think Gellchom meant that sentence of her post to be
read that way: rather that along with all the family Mom had
been expecting a traditional meal, and decided to prepare one
herself. Maybe she wished she could invite the family, but
wanted to keep the peace; she knew perfectly well how hostile an
act it would be to invite everyone to come straight on from Will
and Cathy's event to have a 'proper Christmas lunch at my
place'.
[/quote]
“Proper Christmas lunch” comes across to me as similar to a
“bikini body.” How do you get a “bikini body?” You put a bikini
on your body.
So to me, how do you have a “proper Christmas lunch?” You have a
lunch/brunch/dinner to celebrate Christmas. My family rarely
celebrates Christmas with a dinner on Christmas Eve or Day. We
have had all sorts of things to eat over the years, including
gourmet Mac and Cheese. Does that mean we never have a proper
Christmas dinner? I don’t think so. I think the point is to
celebrate the holiday with family and/or friends, not to eat
specific foods and specific times.
[/quote]
This feels a little like picking a fight, to me. Surely you
understand how this works.
First, you're nitpicking semantics here. "Proper" can mean all
kinds of things, not just "the only one correct way." It can
mean "fitting the expectations I/we/most people have." And what
this Mom considers proper is not necessarily what anyone else
has to. (Plus it wasn't her word; it was just used by one of us
to indicate that the mom would consider this an essential menu.)
"A proper Christmas" is not automatically the same thing to
everyone else.
Plus, to many people, there are specific foods that make the
particular holiday seem "real." Turkey on Thanksgiving, for
example.
Also, don't take this personally. Nobody's saying your family
didn't have a proper meal and therefore your celebrations are
illegitimate or invalid. Maybe to your family, they'd use the
word "proper" to mean "everybody made it this year" or "there
was actually a tree" and not about the food.
#Post#: 43300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: 4Children Date: December 6, 2019, 12:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Maybe a better word is "tradition". This family has a long
tradition of Christmas lunch. Each year the hosting family
understands what that tradition is in this group. The young
hosting couple changed that tradition without input from the
group. Mother decides to go to brunch and then host a
traditional lunch later. OP accepted invitations to both. When
young couple got pushback on the change they went back to the
traditional way. Unfortunately that then put other people (like
OP) in a dilemma. This is one reason why unilaterally changing
traditions is not a good idea.
#Post#: 43302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Competing Christmas lunches! Which to attend?
By: TootsNYC Date: December 6, 2019, 12:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Also perhaps (from a the standpoint of Logistics more than
Etiquette) why it's a good idea for someone like the mother to
not leap too quickly to react to the change, but to give things
a little time to shake out.
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page