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#Post#: 42421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: swedishfish Date: November 21, 2019, 11:20 am
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My ILs aren't perfect either, far from it. But I endure them
because I love my husband. And b/c they are not toxic or
abusive, and I want my children to see that this is how we treat
family.
Now toxic or abusive? It'd be a different story.
#Post#: 42428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: NFPwife Date: November 21, 2019, 1:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=1407.msg42413#msg42413
date=1574352023]
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
[/quote]
That's fair. Christmas lunch isn't "rallying around" her; it's a
holiday celebration and a chance to connect with her
grandchildren. I don't fault Sue for hesitating or not really
feeling like it, but this wasn't a momentary, "I don't feel like
it, but I will" from Sue. It seems like she and Tom have been
discussing it and she's leaning more towards not inviting than
inviting and she's also debated this with her friend. I'd have
more respect for Sue if the focus was, "We're inviting her; how
do I address her if she snipes at me?"
#Post#: 42430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: RubyCat Date: November 21, 2019, 1:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The part that stands out to me is that Tom wants his mother
there for Christmas Day. It is important to him and I think Sue
is wrong to deny his request. Tom is less likely to be able to
enjoy himself knowing that his mother is alone for the day.
Inviting the MIL is less about making her happy and more about
making Tom happy. In the last couple of years, he's lost his
father and his grandmother. It means a lot to him to have his
mother on Christmas Day and unless she is absolutely toxic, I
think for Tom's sake, she should be invited.
#Post#: 42434--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: peony Date: November 21, 2019, 2:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't think I understand why having MIL over for the evening
or even taking her out to a restaurant for a special dinner, and
having Sue's family for lunch on the day, is anything less than
kind and compassionate. Sue deserves a hand if she agrees to
endure MIL's carping at her so that MIL won't be alone on
Christmas and Tom will be happy. Sometimes compromise is the
best way to go, and Sue's family deserves a peaceful holiday as
well as MIL does.
#Post#: 42435--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Gellchom Date: November 21, 2019, 2:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=PVZFan link=topic=1407.msg42428#msg42428
date=1574363161]
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=1407.msg42413#msg42413
date=1574352023]
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
[/quote]
That's fair. Christmas lunch isn't "rallying around" her; it's a
holiday celebration and a chance to connect with her
grandchildren. I don't fault Sue for hesitating or not really
feeling like it, but this wasn't a momentary, "I don't feel like
it, but I will" from Sue. It seems like she and Tom have been
discussing it and she's leaning more towards not inviting than
inviting and she's also debated this with her friend. I'd have
more respect for Sue if the focus was, "We're inviting her; how
do I address her if she snipes at me?"
[/quote]
I don't think anyone is faulting Sue for not WANTING her
annoying MIL there and thinking how nice it would be if she
didn't come. Probably we'd all feel the same way, as would the
people in our lives we admire most. And you feel whatever you
feel.
But that's not at all what's in question, which is whether Sue
should indulge those feelings by overruling Tom and excluding
his mother, leaving her alone, on Christmas. Sue's feelings may
be perfectly understandable. The problem considering only her
own feelings and not Tom's and his mother's. That's just
selfish, and, in this case, even cruel. Having to listen to
unsolicited advice and annoying behavior of that level doesn't
even come close to what Tom and his mother would feel.
And who says that Sue's parents are perfect? Maybe they (and
Sue) have behaviors that bug Tom and his mother, too. Isn't
that more likely than not, in any family?
#Post#: 42445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: gmatoy Date: November 21, 2019, 5:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My MIL was a piece of work. (She was the nuclear version of
toxic.) I disliked her to the point of refusing (after years of
trying to be the better person) to be in the same room with her
and my DH cut all ties with her soon after that.
But before that happened, my own mother once pointed out to me
that, whatever else was said about her, she was also the person
who had raised my DH. That make me try harder for a while. Until
my DH said, "You know that saying, 'If you can't be a good
example, you'll just have to be a terrible warning' ? That was
my mother."
So, while I think you could be a little kinder after a death
and/or around the holidays, I also know that sometimes it won't
make any difference.
#Post#: 42446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Hmmm Date: November 21, 2019, 5:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=peony link=topic=1407.msg42434#msg42434
date=1574367613]
I don't think I understand why having MIL over for the evening
or even taking her out to a restaurant for a special dinner, and
having Sue's family for lunch on the day, is anything less than
kind and compassionate. Sue deserves a hand if she agrees to
endure MIL's carping at her so that MIL won't be alone on
Christmas and Tom will be happy. Sometimes compromise is the
best way to go, and Sue's family deserves a peaceful holiday as
well as MIL does.
[/quote]
[quote]Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our
eyes the second something bad happens to them? If you treat
everyone around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I
think it is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the
second you realize you might need them. I think sue should
invite her, but I don’t for a second think of her badly for
hesitating or not wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked
little or no goodwill with the people around her. It shouldn’t
be a surprise to anyone that people don’t want to subject
themselves to her bad behavior. Would I suck it up this once
and give her a chance to be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not
some moral failing to not want to be around people who don’t
have much regard for you even if they have suffered a
blow.[/quote]
I feel like I have somehow missed a post further describing the
MIL's behavior. All I've seen is that she's offered some
opinions a couple of times, that Sue thinks she is flaky and
that Sue's parents have different values and opinions. That does
not equate to "constantly carping" or "someone who behaves so
badly that they deserve to be alone.
As I stated early one, I don't think it is fair of Sue to decide
the family will exclude the MIL when Tom wants to invite the
MIL. Why is her desire more important than Tom's?
To me this isn't an issue of whether Sue is the problem or the
MIL is the problem. To me the issue is Sue's complete lack of
support or interest in her husband's needs or desires.
#Post#: 42451--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Hello Ducky Date: November 21, 2019, 7:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=wolfie link=topic=1407.msg42417#msg42417
date=1574355271]
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=1407.msg42413#msg42413
date=1574352023]
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
[/quote]
exactly - you reap what you sow. If you are a bitch in good
times then you can't expect people to rally around you in bad
times.
[/quote]
It's a fine line between "not rallying around" and "kicking
someone while they're down," though.
#Post#: 42452--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: pierrotlunaire0 Date: November 21, 2019, 8:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RubyCat link=topic=1407.msg42430#msg42430
date=1574363656]
The part that stands out to me is that Tom wants his mother
there for Christmas Day. It is important to him and I think Sue
is wrong to deny his request. Tom is less likely to be able to
enjoy himself knowing that his mother is alone for the day.
Inviting the MIL is less about making her happy and more about
making Tom happy. In the last couple of years, he's lost his
father and his grandmother. It means a lot to him to have his
mother on Christmas Day and unless she is absolutely toxic, I
think for Tom's sake, she should be invited.
[/quote]
This is where I stand as well. Sue may truly regard the arrival
of her MIL with dread (although the examples given didn't seem
too bad, but I wasn't there). But her husband wants his mother
there. I feel that has to be acknowledged.
And it's not that she is saying, No, MIL cannot darken my door.
She is willing to have her other on a different day. If she can
handle it for a day, then I am sorry, she can handle it on
Christmas. Christmas is the one day that the media goes on and
on about being close with your family. If Tom wants his mother
there, please concede a little.
#Post#: 42477--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: wolfie Date: November 22, 2019, 1:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=1407.msg42451#msg42451
date=1574386477]
[quote author=wolfie link=topic=1407.msg42417#msg42417
date=1574355271]
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=1407.msg42413#msg42413
date=1574352023]
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
[/quote]
exactly - you reap what you sow. If you are a bitch in good
times then you can't expect people to rally around you in bad
times.
[/quote]
It's a fine line between "not rallying around" and "kicking
someone while they're down," though.
[/quote]
I don't see this as kicking so much as maintaining the status
quo. She hasn't gone to christmas for a while.
Also I can put up with a lot of things but on certain days I
refuse to put up with it. THey are the days that I get to enjoy
myself too - I dont need to sacrifice my happiness every day of
the year.
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