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#Post#: 42372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Amara Date: November 20, 2019, 10:45 am
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I think the idea is sound, though. Correct me if I am wrong but
Sue's parents have had "the" day for a long time now. Tom's
mother gets the leftovers. So it hasn't been fair up till now,
but this year, because of the losses incurred, it seems more
unfair than usual. And it sounds as if both sets of parents
(more accurately, Tom's mother and Sue's parents) have
contributed equally to the sniping and unpleasant atmosphere.
Therefore, going forward, they switch off Christmas Day
itself--if everyone can't agree to get along for one lousy day.
(So immature; frankly, I'd dump 'em both for that day instead of
listening to all that whining. Can't they grow up?)
But . . . if adulthood is off the table then Tom's mother gets
Christmas Day, Sue gets to ignore any child-raising suggestions
and enjoy her MIL as is, Sue's parents get the next day, and
then in 2020 it is reversed. And maybe Billy will grow up with
some special memories rather than a nasty holiday that forever
makes him hate it.
#Post#: 42377--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: NFPwife Date: November 20, 2019, 11:56 am
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[quote author=Gellchom link=topic=1407.msg42370#msg42370
date=1574267233]
[quote author=peony link=topic=1407.msg42357#msg42357
date=1574229648]
[quote author=Hmmm link=topic=1407.msg42341#msg42341
date=1574205202]
[quote author=Hello Ducky link=topic=1407.msg42324#msg42324
date=1574199380]
[quote author=peony link=topic=1407.msg42287#msg42287
date=1574174307]
I'm going to go against the current here and say that Sue isn't
being selfish or nasty, she's trying to figure out the best
thing to do under some difficult circumstances. It takes a lot
of intestinal fortitude invite someone over that you know won't
get along with another loved one and who you know will take
potshots at you on the very holiday day you're trying to make
easier for her, in your own home. It isn't always just a matter
of putting on one's big girl panties and behaving, it's a matter
of, do I want to destroy my peace of mind and perhaps others'
too for x many hours for someone who is going to be verbally
mean and probably ungrateful to boot?
That being said, I agree that it would be cruel not to do
something for MIL that day. Maybe splitting the meals, lunch
with her family and supper with MIL? I was thinking supper
because she would probably feel the loneliest toward evening
when it's getting dark.
[/quote]
I can't agree with that. Sue's parents still have each other
and the rest of their family to spend the day with; compassion
would be spending the day with Tom's mother since she only has
Tom now. She could have her parents over the day before or day
after if she's so determined not to have them be in the same
room together.
[/quote]
Exactly. There is nothing in the description of MIL that makes
us assume she toxic. If Sue's family members are so delicate
they are unable to deal with being around someone who annoys
them for a single day, then they can choose to spend the day
somewhere else. Let Tom and his MIL who have both recently
suffered a loss spend the best part of the day together. Tom
obviously wants to spend time with his Mom. Sue is putting her
feelings above the need of her husband.
[/quote]
Sue and Tom should start as they mean to go on with this new
situation. They should make a plan that they will be happy with
going forward, because it might cause unnecessary hurt to people
to alter it later. Both sides of the family should be treated
fairly *and equally.*
[/quote]
The bolded sounds great in the abstract, but this year at least,
the parties are not situated equally. Tom’s family is in
mourning (this is their first Christmas since their losses,
IIRC), his sister is far away, and his mother would be alone.
It’s kind of like the old saying, “the rich and the poor equally
have the right to sleep under a bridge.”
I think we also need to include “kindly.”
[/quote]
Great point. It aligns with my response as I've read through the
thread; I keep thinking that if someone needs excluded on
Christmas Day, why not Sue's family?
A PP mentioned that Tom and Sue should start first with what
Tom's mother wants, I couldn't agree more. My FIL was widowed
three years ago and wants to stay home on holidays. He refuses
invitations. He'll see us the evening before or after and will
tolerate a short visit, but prefers to be alone on the actual
holiday.
If Tom's mother would like to be included on Christmas Day, she
should be. It's beyond heartless to exclude her because she's
made her opinions about solid food and toilet training known.
It's reasonable for both Tom and Sue to set expectations with
their families. Tom to say to his mom, "We'd love to host you,
please go easy on Sue, she's trying hard to make a nice holiday
for everyone." (Or whatever is Tom's version of "Be nice to my
wife.")
Sue to her parents, "We're inviting Tom's mom, she's having a
rough time, please be kind to her."
If Tom's mom says something really egregious Tom can say, "Mom.
Please." And Sue can ignore, have a pat response like "Thank you
for pointing that out to me," or she can excuse herself for a
minute.
Personally, I think Tom needs to polish his spine with his mom
so he can then use it with Sue.
#Post#: 42382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Bgolly Date: November 20, 2019, 2:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I have to admit I had a visceral response when I read this. The
MIL sounds exactly like my husband's grandma. She would
repeatedly give unsolicited advice and criticism. I shouldn't
breastfeed my newborn DS I should feed him cow's milk straight
from the carton, I should get a real job and not be a SAHM, by
tending to him when he cried I was spoiling him, at 3 he was too
young for preschool, it went on and on. This was from someone
who's 2 children were placed in an orphanage for a time. This
happened constantly even as I hosted all family gatherings in my
home. I started replying with the phrase "no one's perfect". It
did stop her in the moment. What we all need to realize is that
usually criticism of others comes from a place of insecurity.
The MIL probably feels that the things the DIL is doing
differently are a rejection of her. The DIL should let the MIL
attend the lunch and let the chips fall where they may. She
needs to get a handle on her own family though. I understand
they are feeling defensive of their DD but the insults don't
really mean much if the DIL continues to raise her own child as
she sees fit. I now have 2 DS's 17 and 19. Both my DH and his GM
have passed away. I am content with the knowledge that I didn't
contribute to family drama.
#Post#: 42389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Gellchom Date: November 20, 2019, 4:29 pm
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I wonder what Sue's parents would have to say about this. Sue
seems to be trying to tell herself (of course, we are hearing
this at least third hand) that she is not thinking only of her
own feelings, but also trying to protect her parents from being
around someone they "can't stand."
But even if they really cannot stand them, I can readily imagine
them saying something like, "Oh, Sue, of COURSE you have to
invite her! We would be totally humiliated if she thought that
you aren't inviting her because we will be there. Leaving her
all alone, on Christmas, this Christmas especially -- that's
just not right, not to mention really unkind to Tom. Don't put
that on us! She's as annoying as hell, but we will all still
have a nice time. Just ignore any stupid comments; that's what
we do." Then again, they raised her ....
And I can't even imagine how she is justifying to herself doing
this to Tom.
I bet most of us have at least one person in our families who is
annoying, boring, loud, opinionated, etc. Indeed, most of us
have some trait or quirk of that level (I wonder if I would
measure up to Sue's standards). In my family, if someone
excluded the more annoying ones, especially for something so
petty, everyone would be ashamed of them.
Sue thinks she would be happier excluding her mother-in-law, but
unless she's a total narcissist, I think in the end she would be
sorry because she'd ruin her own Christmas feeling guilty. In
my opinion, she should.
#Post#: 42390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: lakey Date: November 20, 2019, 4:41 pm
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[quote]Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
« Reply #32 on: Today at 02:32:29 pm »
Quote
I have to admit I had a visceral response when I read this. The
MIL sounds exactly like my husband's grandma. She would
repeatedly give unsolicited advice and criticism. I shouldn't
breastfeed my newborn DS I should feed him cow's milk straight
from the carton, I should get a real job and not be a SAHM, by
tending to him when he cried I was spoiling him, at 3 he was too
young for preschool, it went on and on. This was from someone
who's 2 children were placed in an orphanage for a time. This
happened constantly even as I hosted all family gatherings in my
home. I started replying with the phrase "no one's perfect". It
did stop her in the moment. What we all need to realize is that
usually criticism of others comes from a place of insecurity.
The MIL probably feels that the things the DIL is doing
differently are a rejection of her. The DIL should let the MIL
attend the lunch and let the chips fall where they may. She
needs to get a handle on her own family though. I understand
they are feeling defensive of their DD but the insults don't
really mean much if the DIL continues to raise her own child as
she sees fit. I now have 2 DS's 17 and 19. Both my DH and his GM
have passed away. I am content with the knowledge that I didn't
contribute to family drama.[/quote]
Excellent response. You were smart enough to understand that the
grandma had some issues in her own life, and her criticisms of
you had more to do with her issues than your parenting. You
can't change another person, so sometimes it is best to ignore.
#Post#: 42407--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Hmmm Date: November 21, 2019, 9:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Gellchom link=topic=1407.msg42389#msg42389
date=1574288985]
I wonder what Sue's parents would have to say about this. Sue
seems to be trying to tell herself (of course, we are hearing
this at least third hand) that she is not thinking only of her
own feelings, but also trying to protect her parents from being
around someone they "can't stand."
But even if they really cannot stand them, I can readily imagine
them saying something like, "Oh, Sue, of COURSE you have to
invite her! We would be totally humiliated if she thought that
you aren't inviting her because we will be there. Leaving her
all alone, on Christmas, this Christmas especially -- that's
just not right, not to mention really unkind to Tom. Don't put
that on us! She's as annoying as hell, but we will all still
have a nice time. Just ignore any stupid comments; that's what
we do." Then again, they raised her ....
And I can't even imagine how she is justifying to herself doing
this to Tom.
I bet most of us have at least one person in our families who is
annoying, boring, loud, opinionated, etc. Indeed, most of us
have some trait or quirk of that level (I wonder if I would
measure up to Sue's standards). In my family, if someone
excluded the more annoying ones, especially for something so
petty, everyone would be ashamed of them.
Sue thinks she would be happier excluding her mother-in-law, but
unless she's a total narcissist, I think in the end she would be
sorry because she'd ruin her own Christmas feeling guilty. In
my opinion, she should.
[/quote]
We've hosted both sides of the family for 20 plus years. There
is one member of my DH's family that my family just does not
like. They are always pretty excited when they learn he'll not
be attending one of our holiday gatherings. I also rejoice
because while not mean, he is social awkward and makes
inappropriate comments, gives his opinion on things he has no
business giving his opinion on, tells the most boring stories,
has broken things because of carelessness, and everyone hopes
they are not at the table with him. But no one would ever
suggest not including him. We've just made a game out of it now.
#Post#: 42413--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: NyaChan Date: November 21, 2019, 10:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
#Post#: 42417--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: wolfie Date: November 21, 2019, 10:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=1407.msg42413#msg42413
date=1574352023]
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
[/quote]
exactly - you reap what you sow. If you are a bitch in good
times then you can't expect people to rally around you in bad
times.
#Post#: 42418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: wolfie Date: November 21, 2019, 10:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Gellchom link=topic=1407.msg42389#msg42389
date=1574288985]
But even if they really cannot stand them, I can readily imagine
them saying something like, "Oh, Sue, of COURSE you have to
invite her! We would be totally humiliated if she thought that
you aren't inviting her because we will be there. Leaving her
all alone, on Christmas, this Christmas especially -- that's
just not right, not to mention really unkind to Tom. Don't put
that on us! She's as annoying as hell, but we will all still
have a nice time. Just ignore any stupid comments; that's what
we do." Then again, they raised her ....
.
[/quote]
I find this funny because I know there is no way my parents
would ever say that.
#Post#: 42419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Inviting (or not) judgmental MIL to Christmas lunch?
By: Kimberami Date: November 21, 2019, 10:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NyaChan link=topic=1407.msg42413#msg42413
date=1574352023]
This is more of a “how I look at life response” than a direct
opinion -
Why does someone become a saint/helpless victim in our eyes the
second something bad happens to them? If you treat everyone
around you badly and are unpleasant on a daily basis, I think it
is a bit rich to expect everyone to rally around the second you
realize you might need them. I think sue should invite her, but
I don’t for a second think of her badly for hesitating or not
wanting to do it. MIL has clearly banked little or no goodwill
with the people around her. It shouldn’t be a surprise to
anyone that people don’t want to subject themselves to her bad
behavior. Would I suck it up this once and give her a chance to
be a good guest? Yes. But it’s not some moral failing to not
want to be around people who don’t have much regard for you even
if they have suffered a blow.
[/quote]
I'm going to agree with this. Some people find themselves alone
because of the way they have lived their lives. There is nothing
that requires us to sign up to be punching bags for others. Of
course, I'm not speaking of the MIL in this case. I don't know
enough about this situation to say whether Sue's irritation is
justified.
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