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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 42003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: Jem
Date: November 14, 2019, 10:26 am
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--- Quote from: Songbird link ---
>
>
> In a public restroom you let the person in the wheel chair cut
the line, because they cannot use nay stall except the
accessible one, and they might have limitations that mean they
need additional time to transfer from the chair...
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I can't think of a single time that I have been waiting in a
line that included someone using a wheelchair, so I have never
actually been faced with this decision, but I don't know that
wheelchair users are entitled to cut in line. It's certainly
kind to allow someone in a wheelchair - or anyone, for that
matter - to cut ahead of you (general). For example, I think it
makes sense to allow a mother with a baby who needs the diaper
changing area of the handicapped stall to go ahead of you if
that stall opens up when you are first in line (I have
frequently been in this position and always allow the mother to
use the handicapped stall and wait for the next stall in such
circumstances). Same for someone in a wheelchair - if I am first
in line and the handicap stall opens up and there is a person in
a wheelchair one or two people behind me, certainly I would
waive them ahead into the only stall they can use and I would
wait for the next available stall.
But I don't think that someone in a wheelchair gets to jump in
line as a matter of course, especially in a longer line like at
a sporting even or concert.
I may not be explaining this well, but what I mean is that in
the "short term" (meaning this person is one or two people
behind me and I am at the front of the line) I would absolutely
allow someone ahead of me who needed the larger stall. But I
don't think that everyone in a line of 25 people needs to allow
the 26th person in line to jump ahead to the first spot in line
simply because they are in a wheelchair.
#Post#: 42005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: kckgirl
Date: November 14, 2019, 11:19 am
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Jem, on Ehell, there were some posters who were adamant that
handicapped stalls were exclusive for wheelchairs and everybody
else had to let them go to the front of the line at all times.
There were others who were similarly adamant that they were for
everyone to use in turn (accessible, not exclusive). Like you, I
fell somewhere in the middle. If I'm first in line and a
wheelchair person is next in line, I'll defer to the wheelchair
person if the handicapped stall opens up. Otherwise, I'll use
whatever stall opens up when I'm at the head of the line.
#Post#: 42006--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: November 14, 2019, 11:22 am
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was this Jackson Heights? Those elevators are a royal PITA.
There's almost never an "everybody is getting off" moment.
Retrofitting an elevator never gets a satisfactory result.
I do think that someone in a wheelchair, or with a walker, or
with a cane, gets to get on the elevator and able-bodied people
should hang back.
But if other people are already on, then the
wheelchair/walker/etc. people should have to wait. Nobody should
give up their spot on the elevator for them.
I will say, from an ethical point of view, that if you are
able-bodied, you should not take an elevator in a crowded
situation like that. (from a practical point of view, it's
stupid to, because it will take forever and be unpleasant--and
in a mezzanine setup, you don't have long, long staircases to
climb; you get a rest between)
So if you assume that everyone is following those two principles
(ethics and practicality), then everyone on that elevator is
there for a reason, and wheelchairs don't get priority.
One could argue that they should actually be MORE patient,
because at least they're already sitting down! The person with
the walker, or with a dodgy knee, or a heart condition, is
continuing to undergo more stress.
#Post#: 42007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: November 14, 2019, 11:25 am
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--- Quote from: Kimpossible link ---
>
>
> It is my opinion that there should be dedicated parking spaces
for persons with disabilities and separate spaces that are
dedicated to persons using wheelchairs. Spaces for wheelchairs
don't necessarily need to be close to an entrance, they only
need ample room to load and unload the chairs. Spaces for people
with disabilities don't necessarily need extra space, they just
need to be closer to an entrance.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is a really interesting point!
#Post#: 42008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: Aleko
Date: November 14, 2019, 11:28 am
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--- Quote ---
> Jem, on Ehell, there were some posters who were adamant that
handicapped stalls were exclusive for wheelchairs and everybody
else had to let them go to the front of the line at all times.
There were others who were similarly adamant that they were for
everyone to use in turn (accessible, not exclusive). Like you, I
fell somewhere in the middle. If I'm first in line and a
wheelchair person is next in line, I'll defer to the wheelchair
person if the handicapped stall opens up. Otherwise, I'll use
whatever stall opens up when I'm at the head of the line.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here in the UK, if a stall has the wheelchair logo on it then it
is intended only for people with a disability of some sort that
means they need accessible facilities (i.e. not necessarily
wheelchair-bound), and I think most Rightpondians accept that.
Which doesn't mean that we don't sometimes nip in and use one,
if say half the normal stalls are out of order and there doesn't
seem to be anyone waiting who seems to want it; but it's felt as
a distinct transgression, much as if one were to use a cubicle
labelled for the opposite sex.
#Post#: 42009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: Hmmm
Date: November 14, 2019, 11:30 am
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--- Quote from: Kimpossible link ---
>
> [quote author=Songbird link=topic=1403.msg41998#msg41998
date=1573746779]
> OP here.
>
> I thought she was rude, and from her accent I can assure you
that she was local.
>
> I agree, accommodations for the disabled should level the
playing field, not give them a head start.
>
> My thoughts?
>
> There are signs in the subway trains designating certain seats
as reserved for the elderly and disabled. In other words,
someone with a disability should not be standing on the train
while the able bodied sit. And that would be true even if there
were no designated seats.
>
> In a public restroom you let the person in the wheel chair cut
the line, because they cannot use nay stall except the
accessible one, and they might have limitations that mean they
need additional time to transfer from the chair...
>
> Handicapped parking space? by law they're reserved for
individuals with a permit. My boyfriend has a permit after his
recent spinal surgery, but if he can park close without using
the permit, he will leave the space open for someone else. He
doesn't need the zebra striped area to load or unload a
wheelchair.
>
--- End Quote ---
It is my opinion that there should be dedicated parking spaces
for persons with disabilities and separate spaces that are
dedicated to persons using wheelchairs. Spaces for wheelchairs
don't necessarily need to be close to an entrance, they only
need ample room to load and unload the chairs. Spaces for people
with disabilities don't necessarily need extra space, they just
need to be closer to an entrance.
[/quote]
I don't agree with this. As someone who is frequently pushing a
person in a wheelchair, having a shorter distance to push her is
both helpful from an effort perspective but also when trying to
navigate around parking lot traffic. There have been times when
the handicap spaces were all full and we had to park further
out. I had a couple of incidents of someone backing out of a
parking space thinking it was just me walking and almost backing
into her. When pushing her wheelchair, there is about a total of
4 feet from where my head is to where her feet is.
#Post#: 42011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: TootsNYC
Date: November 14, 2019, 11:43 am
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plus if someone's on their own in a wheelchair, they won't be
visible to drivers in the parking lot, ESPECIALLY when they are
pulling out.
#Post#: 42014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: bopper
Date: November 14, 2019, 12:34 pm
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I think it is hard enough to get around mass transit in a wheel
chair so I give her slack...those who don't need the elevator
can get out of the way, and those who do can say " I need the
elevator" and stay where they are.
#Post#: 42016--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: Jem
Date: November 14, 2019, 12:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Aleko link ---
>
> [quote]Jem, on Ehell, there were some posters who were adamant
that handicapped stalls were exclusive for wheelchairs and
everybody else had to let them go to the front of the line at
all times. There were others who were similarly adamant that
they were for everyone to use in turn (accessible, not
exclusive). Like you, I fell somewhere in the middle. If I'm
first in line and a wheelchair person is next in line, I'll
defer to the wheelchair person if the handicapped stall opens
up. Otherwise, I'll use whatever stall opens up when I'm at the
head of the line.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here in the UK, if a stall has the wheelchair logo on it then it
is intended only for people with a disability of some sort that
means they need accessible facilities (i.e. not necessarily
wheelchair-bound), and I think most Rightpondians accept that.
Which doesn't mean that we don't sometimes nip in and use one,
if say half the normal stalls are out of order and there doesn't
seem to be anyone waiting who seems to want it; but it's felt as
a distinct transgression, much as if one were to use a cubicle
labelled for the opposite sex.
[/quote]
Do you have a cite for that? That is not how things are in the
US, and I am surprised to hear that that would be the case in
the UK. Do people need to have a tag of some sort to use the
handicapped stall? And these stalls are intended to be unused
the majority of the time and people are to wait in line and
leave that stall unused if they don't have a disability of some
sort? I would find that extremely odd in practice.
#Post#: 42017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mass transit ...elevator etiquette
DIR By: Hanna
Date: November 14, 2019, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Interesting read.
HTML https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/30/by-using-the-disabled-toilet-youre-putting-me-at-risk-9327740/
The accessible restroom in my UK office has the sign mentioned
here "not every disability is visible". It's a separate, single
toilet restroom with a sink. (I only know because when they are
cleaning the ladies or it's out of service we are told to use
that one.)
I believe people especially people in wheelchairs should not
have to wait in line with everyone to use the accessible stall,
because I have seen first hand how my friend in a chair requires
extra time to use the restroom, and I know that often people
with disabilities might have a more urgent need than the rest of
us.
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