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       #Post#: 40730--------------------------------------------------
       I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should I of
       fer to pay the deductible?
       By: kittyfan43 Date: October 19, 2019, 6:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dear Everyone
       Backstory: I live with an elderly woman with dementia, I don't
       get paid but I don't pay rent. All I have to do is make sure
       squatters don't move into the house and help her after hours if
       there is an emergency. I have been encouraged to work full time.
       All I have to do is stay there overnight while I am asleep and
       if anyone is there that shouldn't be kick them out and also call
       the daughter or 911 if she is in pain or looks very sick. I have
       no medical training. I report to her daughter who has total
       power of attorney over her mother's finances. -Yes I am certain
       of this. There are instances of public nudity and ridiculous
       expenditures. Her daughter gives her an allowance based on good
       behavior reports so she has somewhat curbed her bad behavior but
       she still needs people to keep an eye on her. A recent example
       is that I have caught her myself trying to take her pants off
       because it was too hot out outside. I told her I would text her
       daughter and she went inside to get naked. So obviously legally
       her opinions on the current matter don't legally count although
       I have apologized many times for my role in this matter.
       Current situation: My car was acting up and it would have cost
       at least $70 to go to work as a substitute teacher that day by
       Uber and I wasn't sure how much my car would cost. I happened to
       mention this in front of the daughter and she told me to ask her
       mother with dementia if I could borrow her car. They both agreed
       and I took her car to work that day. As I was driving home, her
       breaks went out on me -it is a very old car with lots of rust
       underneath. The break line just snapped. I spoke to a mechanic
       and he said that happens on some older cars with lots of rust
       underneath them that don't get driven that often. I had about 30
       seconds warning. Her emergency break didn't work so I ended up
       stopping the car by putting it in park. I was in a busy
       congested area and I could have been killed. It was about 20-45
       seconds of my life that I will never get back. I happened to
       stop the car inside a strip mall parking lot with a 24 hour
       store. I then gently rolled it into a parking space and went
       home by Uber.
       I called the daughter  immediately and told her where the car
       was. When she went to pick it up there were 3 flat tires and a
       busted headlight. None of that was there when I last saw it. (I
       called a store at the mall and there are no cameras in the
       parking lot.) Also, because I parked it by shifting it into park
       instead of using the parking break which I had tried and it
       didn't work, there may be some additional damage to the car.
       When I spoke with the daughter today she told me there was at
       least $2000 worth of damage and that there may be thousands
       more. She was upset with me, maybe she was just venting when she
       spoke to me or maybe she really thinks that I did this damage
       and didn't tell her.
       Should I offer to pay her deductible? What do I do about this? I
       feel terrible.
       Etiquette wise I don't know what my responsibilities are but as
       I am getting a free place to live it might be better to offer
       verbally to pay a deductible -which I am assuming is $500. I
       live in a very expensive state and it is still cheaper than 1
       month's rent on a room in someone else's home.
       Honestly, I was driving home from school where I was working as
       a long term substitute music teacher. Her elderly mother with
       dementia thinks that I must have been drinking. I definitely was
       not.
       Her daughter admitted that legally it is her responsibility to
       get the car fixed and that legally she has to pay and she didn't
       even tell me this initially, when I called a few days later she
       happened to let me know and told me that I needed to help her
       mother out extra while her car is in the shop for the next 2
       weeks. -Something that I am totally willing to do and have
       already begun doing.
       Her mother has been taken advantage of many times by other
       people. I don't want to seem like another person who would do
       that. The daughter has a lot of trust issues due to what her
       mother has done to her -people with dementia can be very
       manipulative and with all the people she has seen take advantage
       of her mother.
       What more should I do other than running some errands for the
       mother? Should I offer to pay the deductible if it is $500? I
       won't put any offers to pay in writing for legal reasons but I
       am willing to verbally offer it and write her a check from my
       next paycheck.
       I am very upset by this. I know that I didn't break any rules of
       the road. I asked for permission from both of them. I certainly
       will never borrow her car or anything else of value from either
       of them ever again. I just don't know how I can smooth this over
       on my end.
       Thanks.
       #Post#: 40739--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: MinMom3 Date: October 19, 2019, 7:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You could also look at it that the daughter owes you an apology
       for endangering your life.  What if you hadn't been where you
       were when things went bad?  Higher speed traffic with no easy
       way to get out of traffic?  What if you'd been hurt when that
       happened?  You easily could have been.
       Daughter can either look on it as too long delayed maintenance
       to the car finally broke and now it's more expensive, or it's
       more expensive AND the person driving the car wasn't hurt, thank
       heaven, and boy did she get lucky!  The car isn't your
       responsibility to repair, it's not your fault that things broke,
       either during the driving, or were vandalized while parked.  If
       she tries to make you feel guilty and or responsible for the
       cars condition, you should push back and remind her that you
       COULD have been hurt, possibly badly, and repairs are not your
       responsibility.
       #Post#: 40741--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: Dazi Date: October 19, 2019, 9:09 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'd be very careful about offering any money or an apology for
       this incident, as either may be taken as an admission of guilt
       on your part. Poor maintenance upkeep on this vehicle is not
       your fault, nor the resulting failure of the vehicle.
       #Post#: 40743--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: Runningstar Date: October 19, 2019, 9:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not sure about the deductible - but wanted to reply to you
       about how sorry I am that this happened to you!  The most
       important thing is that you were able to get it off the road and
       be safe.
       #Post#: 40747--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: jpcher Date: October 20, 2019, 3:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Dazi link=topic=1375.msg40741#msg40741
       date=1571537343]
       I'd be very careful about offering any money or an apology for
       this incident, as either may be taken as an admission of guilt
       on your part. Poor maintenance upkeep on this vehicle is not
       your fault, nor the resulting failure of the vehicle.
       [/quote]
       I completely agree with this. The damage to the car was in no
       way your fault. You did the best you could under the
       circumstances. You guided the car into a public place and left
       it there so that you would be safe. What other choice did you
       have?
       I give you kudos for how you handled the situation.
       I say do not feel bad for the damage and do not offer to pay any
       sort of deductible or other cost to repair the car.
       #Post#: 40749--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: Aleko Date: October 20, 2019, 5:46 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Whatever else you do, listen to Dazi - you aren't responsible
       for any if these events, so you must absolutely not say or do
       anything that could be taken as admitting that you are. Even if
       the daughter isn't essentially a dishonest person, she might try
       to throw the blame on you in order to avoid admitting (to
       herself every bit as much as to you) that she could have got you
       killed by lending you a dangerously under-maintained car; guilt
       can very easily work that way.
       Perhaps the best way to think through what you ought to do, is
       to think what you would do if the daughter had been in the car
       when the brakes failed and had had to leave it somewhere it got
       vandalised -  which could very easily have happened any day.
       (I'm assuming that she does actually use this car from time to
       time?) Would you have felt  sympathetic enough to chip in for
       some of her expenses, or would you have felt that if she had
       failed to take reasonable steps to keep the car in safe
       condition it was entirely on her to bear the consequences?
       #Post#: 40751--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: kittyfan43 Date: October 20, 2019, 7:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you! This makes a lot of sense those of you who have
       replied. I shouldn't be a doormat for these people. I definitely
       could have been killed and they really shouldn't have offered to
       let me use such a dangerous car. The daughter was probably
       already told by the mechanic not to let it get driven on the
       highways. We use the same mechanic and they are sterling in
       their reputation so I think that he daughter was probably
       letting her mother drive a car that was kind of on its last legs
       anyway. -I am assuming.
       Now I need help on been dip issues. The mother wants to see her
       car and while it wouldn't be an abnormal request to have me
       drive her to see it but she has a lot of extremely bad behaviors
       like not wearing her adult diapers and I don't want her to pee
       all over my car. -I had to put down trash bags like a tarp in
       order to drive hers.
       I can give her their number.
       I think that I should agree to help the old woman a little extra
       while her car is in the shop because I would have done that
       anyway but I think that I may need some been dip for the
       daughter if she tries to guilt me in the future.
       How do I do that without sounding threatening?
       I am living here rent free although I am providing a service to
       them both. I was also told by the daughter that she really
       appreciated that I was living here.
       I hope that she doesn't ask me to leave over this but I really
       can't take responsibility for this. It definitely wasn't my
       fault and I should just deflect if her daughter complains to me
       again.
       #Post#: 40752--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: OnyxBird Date: October 20, 2019, 8:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=kittyfan43 link=topic=1375.msg40751#msg40751
       date=1571574829]
       I think that he daughter was probably letting her mother drive a
       car that was kind of on its last legs anyway. -I am assuming.
       [/quote]
       I was wondering who usually drives the car, and if it was the
       mother. I think a line you ought to conside using when the topic
       of the damage to the car comes up is something like "I'm just so
       glad it wasn't [Mother] driving when the brakes failed! That was
       terrifying, especially when the parking brake didn't work
       either, but at least I knew what else to try to stop the car. I
       can't imagine having to try to handle that situation in
       [Mother]'s situation, with how confused she gets. Or trying to
       figure out what to do afterwards with the car stranded."
       Not only did she (presumably unintentionally) endanger you by
       lending you a dangerously unmaintained car*, but if it's
       sometimes driven by the mother, then you may have saved the
       mother's life by borrowing it. Handling a car with failed brakes
       needs quick, clear thinking to stop it safely. Then, you were
       stranded in an environment you didn't intend to be in (and the
       vandalism suggests a potentially dangerous environment at that)
       and had to figure out how to navigate that safely. That's not a
       situation a person with dementia should be in. (Frankly, given
       your descriptions of her, e.g., repeatedly needing to be
       reminded to wear clothing outside, I'm concerned by the idea
       that she's driving in general--if she's forgetting basic social
       norms, can she be counted on to remember the rules of the road?
       But that's an issue separate from the damage to the car, except
       as a possible reason not to get it fixed.)
       *Keep in mind that it wasn't just the regular brakeline that
       failed--the parking brake, aka emergency brake, was also
       non-functional. Unless the mechanic indicated that both are
       likely to fail at the same time, that suggests they failed to
       fix an already-failed safety backup system of the car while they
       let the primary brakes deteriorate.
       #Post#: 40754--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: jpcher Date: October 20, 2019, 9:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Bean dip? No need for that. Tell the woman straight out that she
       needs to talk to her daughter.
       #Post#: 40755--------------------------------------------------
       Re: I borrowed a car from someone and it was vandalized! Should 
       I offer to pay the deductible?
       By: Hanna Date: October 20, 2019, 10:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The real problem here is that a woman with dementia actually
       drives anywhere!
       I’m so sorry this happened to you. I would gladly run extra
       errands out of kindness, not guilt. And I would decline to let
       her ride in my car. In fact I’d be unwilling to take her
       anywhere even in her car. That’s above and beyond your
       obligation in exchange for free rent.
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