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#Post#: 37396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: jpcher Date: August 24, 2019, 2:01 pm
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[quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
link=topic=1293.msg37371#msg37371 date=1566621406]
Ok, so what?! You don't assume that someone still wants to
come, you ask.
[/quote]
I snipped the rest of your post but want to say that you brought
up an excellent point. The bride shouldn't have made
arrangements for LW without asking first.
#Post#: 37463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: Hanna Date: August 25, 2019, 9:25 pm
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I don't understand Miss Manner's response at all.
I understand the guest making an excuse but she really
demonstrated why you don't give details when you decline. "I am
sorry but I am unable to attend due to a prior engagement".
Period. Anything more puts everyone in a bind and bad humor. In
this particular case since the conflict occurred after the
invitations was accepted, "I am so very sorry but we neglected
to realize we have a conflict that we cannot resolve and so must
sadly rescind our RSVP."
I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her word
and assume she really wanted to attend but could not because of
transportation, and so to try to provide arrangements. She
really did nothing wrong. Some people would have taken her up
on the offer of a ride.
But I cannot for the life of me understand why Miss Manners now
seems to indicate the guest is now stuck. All she needs to do
is say "I am so sorry but it turns out that I will not be able
to make it. I really appreciate you trying to help make it work
and feel sad I will miss your big day." Or some such reply that
means "No." without any details.
No one did anything terribly wrong here, it's just kindness on
one side and discomfort attending alone on the other.
#Post#: 37469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: Aleko Date: August 26, 2019, 2:18 am
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[quote]I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her
word and assume she really wanted to attend but could not
because of transportation, and so to try to provide
arrangements. She really did nothing wrong. Some people would
have taken her up on the offer of a ride. [/quote]
True: but by the same token a great many people, like the LW,
certainly would not have been comfortable with being driven 90
miles each way by a total stranger, and the obvious course of
action would be to say: 'Several guests will be coming from your
locality, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to give you a
lift; would you like me to ask around?', not just go ahead and
arrange it. Even with all allowances made for a bride who feels
her wedding to be so thrilling that she can't imagine anyone not
wanting to get to it by any means possible, she was a bit dense.
#Post#: 37474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: Hanna Date: August 26, 2019, 7:00 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1293.msg37469#msg37469
date=1566803917]
[quote]I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her
word and assume she really wanted to attend but could not
because of transportation, and so to try to provide
arrangements. She really did nothing wrong. Some people would
have taken her up on the offer of a ride. [/quote]
True: but by the same token a great many people, like the LW,
certainly would not have been comfortable with being driven 90
miles each way by a total stranger, and the obvious course of
action would be to say: 'Several guests will be coming from your
locality, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to give you a
lift; would you like me to ask around?', not just go ahead and
arrange it. Even with all allowances made for a bride who feels
her wedding to be so thrilling that she can't imagine anyone not
wanting to get to it by any means possible, she was a bit dense.
[/quote]
I agree with dense. But assuming she’s a young woman not married
before she likely has no clue what it feels like to actually be
married. (Not saying this is a universal experience but for me
it’s been a surprise.) By this I mean, not wanting to go places
without your spouse and maybe not wanting to ride in a car with
some married guy you hardly know.
I just got married two months ago and am already amazed by how
much it’s changed my attitudes about so many things. As a single
woman and even when DH and I were just dating I did all kinds of
things on my own. Riding with a friend of my friends to their
wedding would not give me a second thought! Of course I’d go.
As for thrilling - she’d already said yes once and expressed
dismay that she couldn’t drive. I do think arranging a ride was
total overkill but the thought behind it is nice, not
self-centered.
#Post#: 37475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: Dazi Date: August 26, 2019, 7:02 am
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This is 1000% why you don't JADE when declining an event. If the
invited person really wanted to come, they would have made
arrangements on their own. They could have driven up the day
before, stayed the night in a hotel/resort, and driven back home
the following day. They could have asked around and found
another relative to carpool with. Since they chose neither of
those options, I can only assume going to this wedding wasn't
super important to them, and you know what?, That's perfectly
fine!
I sure as heck wouldn't want to be trapped 3 hours from home
with a stranger. That is not a viable option to me. I mean
seriously, my boss once got pissed because he arranged a group
of us to carpool to a meeting that was 2-3 hours away and when
the guy got there he was DOWSED in some NASTY cologne. I
couldn't get in the car because of my allergies and asthma, so I
drove myself and everyone else that was supposed to ride with
him. Stuff like that can happen.
#Post#: 37481--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: Hmmm Date: August 26, 2019, 8:34 am
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[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1293.msg37469#msg37469
date=1566803917]
[quote]I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her
word and assume she really wanted to attend but could not
because of transportation, and so to try to provide
arrangements. She really did nothing wrong. Some people would
have taken her up on the offer of a ride. [/quote]
True: but by the same token a great many people, like the LW,
certainly would not have been comfortable with being driven 90
miles each way by a total stranger, and the obvious course of
action would be to say: 'Several guests will be coming from your
locality, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to give you a
lift; would you like me to ask around?', not just go ahead and
arrange it. Even with all allowances made for a bride who feels
her wedding to be so thrilling that she can't imagine anyone not
wanting to get to it by any means possible, she was a bit dense.
[/quote]
I just want to point out that it was not a total stranger. LW
said it was a man she didn't know well. She knows him at least
enough to know he is not married but may be dating someone.
And we also don't know how it was put to her that she had the
option of a ride. I can understand the bride wanting to see if
she could arrange transport before offering since she was
clearly taking LW at her word of wanting to attend but not being
able to because of transport. As far as I can tell the LW would
pretty much be in the same boat had she been presented with
"would you like me to see if I can arrange transport" and her
having to say no she didn't want her to.
#Post#: 37503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: DaDancingPsych Date: August 26, 2019, 10:50 am
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To me, the don't JADE guideline is for situations where the
individual is likely to push back. It would not have occurred to
me that this was one of those times. And if I had not elaborated
to the HC, I could totally see myself having a conversation with
a friend (ie. the bride's sister) about this in more detail as I
do with many of my friends. I think it's one of those situations
where in hindsight we easily see the "error", but in the moment,
I am not completely convinced that it is so clear.
That said, I think the real blunder was on the HC and/or bride's
sister/friend for organizing this without consulting the LW. I
don't think that they meant harm, but I do think that they
overstepped.
I also think that MM's response was not only off, but very
condescending and borderline rude. Even if the LW had done
something wrong (and I am not totally convinced that she did), I
think the wording was so snotty. I prefer to take my advice from
kinder and more polite people (oh look... an entire forum!!!)
I agree, that if I was the LW, I would decline the offer and
this is certainly NOT a moment to JADE. "That was thoughtful,
but that is not going to work for me." Someone else also mention
that it would probably be a relief for the driver, as he would
probably prefer to make the trip with his girlfriend.
#Post#: 37513--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: TootsNYC Date: August 26, 2019, 11:52 am
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[quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
link=topic=1293.msg37327#msg37327 date=1566578874]
And yet this bride has done everything in her power to make
things work on your behalf.
But she didn't ask for that!
Now the problem is yours.
The problem was hers to begin with! She basically gave a good
reason why she could not go now that her husband could not go
and they overrode it by trying to solve her problem for her. As
I see it, she didn't tell them that she wasn't comfortable with
the solo trip because she wanted a solution but as a way of
explaining why neither of them would be coming.
Sometimes trying to do something for someone who has not
specifically asked for help can feel imposing.
The Bride's first response should have been "I'm sorry we will
miss you." If she thought that her guest might need help then
she should have asked her before finding someone to drive her.
That was a bit rude. As adults, we don't make plans for other
adults without their express permission and cooperation.
Now, this guest not only has to decline again to attend the
event, but has to decline the extra work that the Bride has gone
to.
It would have been more appropriate for the Bride to ask "Would
you like me to find you a ride?"
It just makes me nuts that MM doesn't see how the Bride has now
made what was an awkward situation to begin with, worse.
[/quote]
I agree with all these points. Thank you for doing all the work
of typing it out so clearly! ;) <3
#Post#: 37514--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: TootsNYC Date: August 26, 2019, 11:54 am
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[quote author=Chez Miriam link=topic=1293.msg37334#msg37334
date=1566584195]
I think this is a perfect example of why we should not JADE: the
guest stated the reason she could no longer attend [too long
drive; after dark], and the host 'fixed' the problem.
[/quote]
Ah, but the guest wasn't talking to the host. The guest was
talking to her friend.
The friend/sister-of-the-host should NOT have carried that
message, and if she forgot and did, then any message about a
POSSIBLE ride should have traveled back along the same way.
#Post#: 37533--------------------------------------------------
Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
By: Gellchom Date: August 26, 2019, 4:45 pm
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I don't think either of them did anything terrible. Yes, it
would've been better to ask her if she would like a ride first,
but her intentions were good, and she was responding to the
problem that the LW herself stated by trying to solve it. As
Hanna points out, she simply took her at her word that she would
come but for the transportation difficulty, and many people
would have happily accepted. I can even imagine a letter from
someone in the LW's position saying "I clearly told her that I
wanted to come but had no way to get there, and then I later
found out that she knew that there was someone who easily could
have given me a ride and never even told me! I guess the bride
only really wanted my husband and was all too eager to save the
money."
What's the problem? It's a little more awkward now, but not
much different. The LW can easily get out of it simply by
saying something like, "It was nice of you to go to the trouble
of trying to arrange transportation for me, but I think it's
best if I just stay behind, as disappointed as I will be to miss
your wedding. I look forward to hearing all about it! I'm sure
it will be wonderful."
I agree that the LW is really not in such a different position
than if her friend had simply offered to arrange transportation
-- it still would have been awkward to decline without it
seeming like the wedding is no big deal to her. She would still
have had to say something like the above, just changing "It was
nice of you to go to the trouble ..." with "It's nice of you to
offer to go to the trouble ...."
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