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       #Post#: 37396--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: jpcher Date: August 24, 2019, 2:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
       link=topic=1293.msg37371#msg37371 date=1566621406]
       Ok, so what?!  You don't assume that someone still wants to
       come, you ask.
       [/quote]
       I snipped the rest of your post but want to say that you brought
       up an excellent point. The bride shouldn't have made
       arrangements for LW without asking first.
       #Post#: 37463--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: Hanna Date: August 25, 2019, 9:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't understand Miss Manner's response at all.
       I understand the guest making an excuse but she really
       demonstrated why you don't give details when you decline. "I am
       sorry but I am unable to attend due to a prior engagement".
       Period. Anything more puts everyone in a bind and bad humor.  In
       this particular case since the conflict occurred after the
       invitations was accepted, "I am so very sorry but we neglected
       to realize we have a conflict that we cannot resolve and so must
       sadly rescind our RSVP."
       I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her word
       and assume she really wanted to attend but could not because of
       transportation, and so to try to provide arrangements. She
       really did nothing wrong.  Some people would have taken her up
       on the offer of a ride.
       But I cannot for the life of me understand why Miss Manners now
       seems to indicate the guest is now stuck.  All she needs to do
       is say "I am so sorry but it turns out that I will not be able
       to make it.  I really appreciate you trying to help make it work
       and feel sad I will miss your big day."  Or some such reply that
       means "No." without any details.
       No one did anything terribly wrong here, it's just kindness on
       one side and discomfort attending alone on the other.
       #Post#: 37469--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: Aleko Date: August 26, 2019, 2:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her
       word and assume she really wanted to attend but could not
       because of transportation, and so to try to provide
       arrangements. She really did nothing wrong.  Some people would
       have taken her up on the offer of a ride.  [/quote]
       True: but by the same token a great many people, like the LW,
       certainly would not have been comfortable with being driven 90
       miles each way by a total stranger, and the obvious course of
       action would be to say: 'Several guests will be coming from your
       locality, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to give you a
       lift; would you like me to ask around?', not just go ahead and
       arrange it. Even with all allowances made for a bride who feels
       her wedding to be so thrilling that she can't imagine anyone not
       wanting to get to it by any means possible, she was a bit dense.
       #Post#: 37474--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: Hanna Date: August 26, 2019, 7:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Aleko link=topic=1293.msg37469#msg37469
       date=1566803917]
       [quote]I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her
       word and assume she really wanted to attend but could not
       because of transportation, and so to try to provide
       arrangements. She really did nothing wrong.  Some people would
       have taken her up on the offer of a ride.  [/quote]
       True: but by the same token a great many people, like the LW,
       certainly would not have been comfortable with being driven 90
       miles each way by a total stranger, and the obvious course of
       action would be to say: 'Several guests will be coming from your
       locality, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to give you a
       lift; would you like me to ask around?', not just go ahead and
       arrange it. Even with all allowances made for a bride who feels
       her wedding to be so thrilling that she can't imagine anyone not
       wanting to get to it by any means possible, she was a bit dense.
       [/quote]
       I agree with dense. But assuming she’s a young woman not married
       before she likely has no clue what it feels like to actually be
       married. (Not saying this is a universal experience but for me
       it’s been a surprise.)  By this I mean, not wanting to go places
       without your spouse and maybe not wanting to ride in a car with
       some married guy you hardly know.
       I just got married two months ago and am already amazed by how
       much it’s changed my attitudes about so many things. As a single
       woman and even when DH and I were just dating I did all kinds of
       things on my own. Riding with a friend of my friends to their
       wedding would not give me a second thought! Of course I’d go.
       As for thrilling - she’d already said yes once and expressed
       dismay that she couldn’t drive. I do think arranging a ride was
       total overkill but the thought behind it is nice, not
       self-centered.
       #Post#: 37475--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: Dazi Date: August 26, 2019, 7:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This is 1000% why you don't JADE when declining an event. If the
       invited person really wanted to come, they would have made
       arrangements on their own. They could have driven up the day
       before, stayed the night in a hotel/resort, and driven back home
       the following day. They could have asked around and found
       another relative to carpool with. Since they chose neither of
       those options, I can only assume going to this wedding wasn't
       super important to them, and you know what?, That's perfectly
       fine!
       I sure as heck wouldn't want to be trapped 3 hours from home
       with a stranger. That is not a viable option to me. I mean
       seriously, my boss once got pissed because he arranged a group
       of us to carpool to a meeting that was 2-3 hours away and when
       the guy got there he was DOWSED in some NASTY cologne. I
       couldn't get in the car because of my allergies and asthma, so I
       drove myself and everyone else that was supposed to ride with
       him. Stuff like that can happen.
       #Post#: 37481--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: Hmmm Date: August 26, 2019, 8:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Aleko link=topic=1293.msg37469#msg37469
       date=1566803917]
       [quote]I think it was kind of the Bride to take the guest at her
       word and assume she really wanted to attend but could not
       because of transportation, and so to try to provide
       arrangements. She really did nothing wrong.  Some people would
       have taken her up on the offer of a ride.  [/quote]
       True: but by the same token a great many people, like the LW,
       certainly would not have been comfortable with being driven 90
       miles each way by a total stranger, and the obvious course of
       action would be to say: 'Several guests will be coming from your
       locality, and I'm sure one of them would be happy to give you a
       lift; would you like me to ask around?', not just go ahead and
       arrange it. Even with all allowances made for a bride who feels
       her wedding to be so thrilling that she can't imagine anyone not
       wanting to get to it by any means possible, she was a bit dense.
       [/quote]
       I just want to point out that it was not a total stranger. LW
       said it was a man she didn't know well. She knows him at least
       enough to know he is not married but may be dating someone.
       And we also don't know how it was put to her that she had the
       option of a ride. I can understand the bride wanting to see if
       she could arrange transport before offering since she was
       clearly taking LW at her word of wanting to attend but not being
       able to because of transport. As far as I can tell the LW would
       pretty much be in the same boat had she been presented with
       "would you like me to see if I can arrange transport" and her
       having to say no she didn't want her to.
       #Post#: 37503--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: DaDancingPsych Date: August 26, 2019, 10:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To me, the don't JADE guideline is for situations where the
       individual is likely to push back. It would not have occurred to
       me that this was one of those times. And if I had not elaborated
       to the HC, I could totally see myself having a conversation with
       a friend (ie. the bride's sister) about this in more detail as I
       do with many of my friends. I think it's one of those situations
       where in hindsight we easily see the "error", but in the moment,
       I am not completely convinced that it is so clear.
       That said, I think the real blunder was on the HC and/or bride's
       sister/friend for organizing this without consulting the LW. I
       don't think that they meant harm, but I do think that they
       overstepped.
       I also think that MM's response was not only off, but very
       condescending and borderline rude. Even if the LW had done
       something wrong (and I am not totally convinced that she did), I
       think the wording was so snotty. I prefer to take my advice from
       kinder and more polite people (oh look... an entire forum!!!)
       I agree, that if I was the LW, I would decline the offer and
       this is certainly NOT a moment to JADE. "That was thoughtful,
       but that is not going to work for me." Someone else also mention
       that it would probably be a relief for the driver, as he would
       probably prefer to make the trip with his girlfriend.
       #Post#: 37513--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: TootsNYC Date: August 26, 2019, 11:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Mary Sunshine Rain
       link=topic=1293.msg37327#msg37327 date=1566578874]
       And yet this bride has done everything in her power to make
       things work on your behalf.
       But she didn't ask for that!
       Now the problem is yours.
       The problem was hers to begin with!  She basically gave a good
       reason why she could not go now that her husband could not go
       and they overrode it by trying to solve her problem for her.  As
       I see it, she didn't tell them that she wasn't comfortable with
       the solo trip because she wanted a solution but as a way of
       explaining why neither of them would be coming.
       Sometimes trying to do something for someone who has not
       specifically asked for help can feel imposing.
       The Bride's first response should have been "I'm sorry we will
       miss you."  If she thought that her guest might need help then
       she should have asked her before finding someone to drive her.
       That was a bit rude.  As adults, we don't make plans for other
       adults without their express permission and cooperation.
       Now, this guest not only has to decline again to attend the
       event, but has to decline the extra work that the Bride has gone
       to.
       It would have been more appropriate for the Bride to ask "Would
       you like me to find you a ride?"
       It just makes me nuts that MM doesn't see how the Bride has now
       made what was an awkward situation to begin with, worse.
       [/quote]
       I agree with all these points. Thank you for doing all the work
       of typing it out so clearly! ;) <3
       #Post#: 37514--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: TootsNYC Date: August 26, 2019, 11:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Chez Miriam link=topic=1293.msg37334#msg37334
       date=1566584195]
       I think this is a perfect example of why we should not JADE: the
       guest stated the reason she could no longer attend [too long
       drive; after dark], and the host 'fixed' the problem.
       [/quote]
       Ah, but the guest wasn't talking to the host. The guest was
       talking to her friend.
       The friend/sister-of-the-host should NOT have carried that
       message, and if she forgot and did, then any message about a
       POSSIBLE ride should have traveled back along the same way.
       #Post#: 37533--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Host's resolving our objection to attendance - Miss Manners
       By: Gellchom Date: August 26, 2019, 4:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't think either of them did anything terrible.  Yes, it
       would've been better to ask her if she would like a ride first,
       but her intentions were good, and she was responding to the
       problem that the LW herself stated by trying to solve it.  As
       Hanna points out, she simply took her at her word that she would
       come but for the transportation difficulty, and many people
       would have happily accepted.  I can even imagine a letter from
       someone in the LW's position saying "I clearly told her that I
       wanted to come but had no way to get there, and then I later
       found out that she knew that there was someone who easily could
       have given me a ride and never even told me!  I guess the bride
       only really wanted my husband and was all too eager to save the
       money."
       What's the problem?  It's a little more awkward now, but not
       much different.  The LW can easily get out of it simply by
       saying something like, "It was nice of you to go to the trouble
       of trying to arrange transportation for me, but I think it's
       best if I just stay behind, as disappointed as I will be to miss
       your wedding.  I look forward to hearing all about it!  I'm sure
       it will be wonderful."
       I agree that the LW is really not in such a different position
       than if her friend had simply offered to arrange transportation
       -- it still would have been awkward to decline without it
       seeming like the wedding is no big deal to her.  She would still
       have had to say something like the above, just changing "It was
       nice of you to go to the trouble ..." with "It's nice of you to
       offer to go to the trouble ...."
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