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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 38721--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: Aleko Date: September 14, 2019, 11:17 am
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[quote]. . . my partner and I were invited to a friend's
wedding. After dinner, the MC asked for all the "single people"
to come up to the front of the room. My partner and I did not
consider ourselves single, so we stayed put. Then the MC started
calling out the "single people" by name, and he specifically
named my partner and I (among others).
So we went up to the front, where the MC announced that all the
"single people" would be playing a game, which involved randomly
pairing up (male-female) and popping balloons... without using
our hands! The first team to burst their balloon (using only
their bodies) would win.
My partner immediately turned on his heel and sat down. I
stayed, and was randomly paired with the groom's teenage cousin
(I was 30 years old). So all the "single people" started playing
this game, while all the married folks sat there watching, and
grinning at us. Mercifully another team managed to pop their
balloon quite quickly, and it was over. The MC asked for a
"round of applause for all the single people!".[/quote]
If this was a professional MC that the bridal couple had hired,
or even if it was a friend or relation asked to fill this role,
it's possible that when he asked for a list of the single guests
they had no idea he was going to subject them to this kind of
embarrassing 'game'. Even so, like you I'm surprised they would
have classed you and you partner as single. Maybe it was someone
else, say the bride's mother, who was asked? I can see a person
of a previous generation taking a much narrower view of who is
or is not entitled to be considered a 'couple'; also, she might
not necessarily know the living arrangements of her daughter's
friends, and just go by the fact that you weren't Mr and Mrs.
[quote]To add insult to injury, when I returned to my table, I'd
discovered that the waitstaff had come around offering shots of
premium spirits for everyone who was sitting down... which meant
in practice, all the "single people" missed out on the shots. (I
have no idea whether this was intentional timing or
not).[/quote]
I would certainly assume, unless I had positive evidence to the
contrary, that the wait staff weren't in any way coordinating
their serving with the MC's high jinks: that they were under
instructions to serve a round of spirits after dinner had been
finished and cleared, and so that's what they did.
#Post#: 38798--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: Hmmm Date: September 16, 2019, 1:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Meg1079 link=topic=1288.msg38513#msg38513
date=1568216632]
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1288.msg38509#msg38509
date=1568215033]
[quote author=Meg1079 link=topic=1288.msg38507#msg38507
date=1568214344]
[quote author=Jem link=topic=1288.msg38505#msg38505
date=1568212668]
I think for a lot of people the issue is expecting to be treated
the same as married people when people have made the decision
NOT to marry for whatever reason. I don't think anyone needs to
validate or defend their choices to anyone else. I think they
just need to own it.
It's kinda like people who say, "A degree is just a piece of
paper. I know way more than this guy with a PhD and I never went
to college." It could very well be true that the high school
graduate is smarter than the PhD, or knows more about a
particular subject. But the high school graduate is NOT a PhD.
Pointing that fact out is not saying the high school graduate
isn't smart. It is saying she is not a PhD.
[/quote]
For the most part, I don't see the need to justify my decision
not to get married, especially to people that I don't really
know. I've never had anyone not invite my other half to
something because we aren't married. The people we know have
always treated us as a social unit. I do feel badly for those in
the disabled community who would love to get married to their
other half, but can't because they need their benefits. If I had
known that the government would take away my other half's
disability benefits because we moved in together, I don't know
if we would have moved in together. I think it's something that
needs to change, but that's a government issue and not an
etiquette issue!
But some days it does feel like people do need to defend their
decision not to get married. I'm seeing a lot of that attitude
here: don't expect to be treated the same as a married couple if
you choose not to get married. I've seen other people post (not
necessarily here) that they would consider someone in a
relationship single because they had not married their other
half, even if they've been in a committed relationship for
years. I'm only pointing out that some people are unable to get
married (or even move in with their spouse) because of financial
issues that are no fault of theirs. Unless I've been misreading
everything, in which case I apologize.
[/quote]
Regarding the green: I don't think that people who choose, for
whatever reason, not to get married should be treated poorly or
as though their relationships are not genuine. But I think even
in your own examples people have chosen NOT to be married
precisely because they DON'T want to be treated as a married
couple. The entire reason to choose to NOT be married is to
avoid being treated as a married couple. Being married simply is
NOT the same as NOT being married.
Regarding the red, I personally would not consider a person
"single" in the sense of "this person does not have a
significant other," but I also would not consider them to be
"married" if they are not. For government purposes I think a
person would be considered "single," because there is no option
of "well, I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years and we are
committed to each other but we are choosing not to marry." Valid
choices, but in fact a choice to NOT marry.
Unless I am somehow personally invested in the relationship, I
don't really care what someone chooses. I just am accurate when
describing it.
Regarding the purple, I personally don't feel I need to justify
my choices to anyone other than people those choices affect (if
then). So long as I am comfortable with my choices, I wouldn't
feel the need to justify them to people whose opinion I don't
value. So I guess if you feel the need to explain your choices
(general you) to people that is totally fine, but I don't think
there is a generally expected need for you (general) to do so.
Just live and let live.
[/quote]
For the most part, I don't see the need to justify my decision
not to get married, especially to people that I don't really
know. I've never had anyone not invite my other half to
something because we aren't married. The people we know have
always treated us as a social unit. I do feel badly for those in
the disabled community who would love to get married to their
other half, but can't because they need their benefits. If I had
known that the government would take away my other half's
disability benefits because we moved in together, I don't know
if we would have done that. I think it's something that needs to
change, but that's a government issue and not an etiquette
issue!
[/quote]
I'm just catching up with this thread and in reading, I saw the
focus more on the legality issues and perceptions of married
versus choosing to not marry. I have a sister who is in her mid
50's but after a stroke is wheelchair bound and has lost the use
of her right side. She has been on disability for about a year
and a half now. If she and her DH divorced, her disability
payments would be much higher. However, neither she or her DH
made that decision, though financially it would be better for
both of them. Instead they are making due with the one income.
So while I do think it unfair that disability payments are tied
to partner's incomes, some will choose to lose out financially
for the sake of having the legal institution of marriage and the
other benefits that come with that.
However, socially, I think any long term couple who present
themselves socially as a committed couple should be treated that
way no matter if they are living together, living separately or
married. I will also state that I know people who are "legally"
married who do not present themselves as a social unit and they
do not want or expect to be treated as a social unit. (In both
cases, they co-own businesses and decided it was just too
complicated to divorce. One even has a long term partner he has
lived with for 5 years. We treat him and her as the social
unit.)
#Post#: 44580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: Twik Date: January 2, 2020, 10:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1288.msg38721#msg38721
date=1568477845]
[quote]. . . my partner and I were invited to a friend's
wedding. After dinner, the MC asked for all the "single people"
to come up to the front of the room. My partner and I did not
consider ourselves single, so we stayed put. Then the MC started
calling out the "single people" by name, and he specifically
named my partner and I (among others).
So we went up to the front, where the MC announced that all the
"single people" would be playing a game, which involved randomly
pairing up (male-female) and popping balloons... without using
our hands! The first team to burst their balloon (using only
their bodies) would win.
My partner immediately turned on his heel and sat down. I
stayed, and was randomly paired with the groom's teenage cousin
(I was 30 years old). So all the "single people" started playing
this game, while all the married folks sat there watching, and
grinning at us. Mercifully another team managed to pop their
balloon quite quickly, and it was over. The MC asked for a
"round of applause for all the single people!".[/quote]
If this was a professional MC that the bridal couple had hired,
or even if it was a friend or relation asked to fill this role,
it's possible that when he asked for a list of the single guests
they had no idea he was going to subject them to this kind of
embarrassing 'game'. Even so, like you I'm surprised they would
have classed you and you partner as single. Maybe it was someone
else, say the bride's mother, who was asked? I can see a person
of a previous generation taking a much narrower view of who is
or is not entitled to be considered a 'couple'; also, she might
not necessarily know the living arrangements of her daughter's
friends, and just go by the fact that you weren't Mr and Mrs.
[quote]To add insult to injury, when I returned to my table, I'd
discovered that the waitstaff had come around offering shots of
premium spirits for everyone who was sitting down... which meant
in practice, all the "single people" missed out on the shots. (I
have no idea whether this was intentional timing or
not).[/quote]
I would certainly assume, unless I had positive evidence to the
contrary, that the wait staff weren't in any way coordinating
their serving with the MC's high jinks: that they were under
instructions to serve a round of spirits after dinner had been
finished and cleared, and so that's what they did.
[/quote]
I should point out that married or not, no one is obligated to
take part in activities like this. The partner who sat down was
well within his rights and was in no way rude. Hectoring people
to take part in these games is the rudeness.
#Post#: 44586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: gramma dishes Date: January 2, 2020, 11:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1288.msg38721#msg38721
date=1568477845]
[quote]To add insult to injury, when I returned to my table, I'd
discovered that the waitstaff had come around offering shots of
premium spirits for everyone who was sitting down... which meant
in practice, all the "single people" missed out on the shots. (I
have no idea whether this was intentional timing or not).
[/quote]
I would certainly assume, unless I had positive evidence to the
contrary, that the wait staff weren't in any way coordinating
their serving with the MC's high jinks: that they were under
instructions to serve a round of spirits after dinner had been
finished and cleared, and so that's what they did.
[/quote]
Actually it sounds like that's exactly what did happen. I
suspect the staff was indeed requested to serve the couples
remaining at the table while the single people were balloon game
engaged.
#Post#: 44635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: Aleko Date: January 3, 2020, 2:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]I suspect the staff was indeed requested to serve the
couples remaining at the table while the single people were
balloon game engaged.[/quote]
You're assuming then that this whole episode was devised with
hostile intent toward all the couple's single friends and
relations? Because while plenty of people who enjoy this kind of
game are thoughtless and insensitive enough to assume that
everybody else does and will be happy to play it to order,
pretty much nobody who serves "premium spirits" assumes that
people will be happy to be deprived of it while everyone else is
getting.
I have a hard time envisaging a bridal couple saying to each
other, 'After dinner, let's make all the single guests play a
silly embarrassing game while everyone else sits laughing at
them, and we'll have the MC call them up by name so none of them
can get out of it. And we'll have the 10-year-old scotch served
while they're doing it, so when they get back to their table
they'll find they've missed out. That will be fun, tee-hee!''
#Post#: 44656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: gramma dishes Date: January 3, 2020, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In a word, yes.
There may have been no A list and B list for the wedding itself,
but yes I have indeed seen individuals and groups of guests
treated quite differently at/during receptions.
Came back to edit a bit: I don't mean to imply that the hosts
were being intentionally cruel, just that they were so busy
trying to keep everyone entertained while the one group
(singles) were on the floor and presumably getting all the
attention, that they just 'forgot' to consider that they were
treating the two groups quite differently. I don't think the
intention was to be mean.
#Post#: 44671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: Twik Date: January 3, 2020, 9:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Aleko link=topic=1288.msg44635#msg44635
date=1578039892]
[quote]I suspect the staff was indeed requested to serve the
couples remaining at the table while the single people were
balloon game engaged.[/quote]
You're assuming then that this whole episode was devised with
hostile intent toward all the couple's single friends and
relations? Because while plenty of people who enjoy this kind of
game are thoughtless and insensitive enough to assume that
everybody else does and will be happy to play it to order,
pretty much nobody who serves "premium spirits" assumes that
people will be happy to be deprived of it while everyone else is
getting.
I have a hard time envisaging a bridal couple saying to each
other, 'After dinner, let's make all the single guests play a
silly embarrassing game while everyone else sits laughing at
them, and we'll have the MC call them up by name so none of them
can get out of it. And we'll have the 10-year-old scotch served
while they're doing it, so when they get back to their table
they'll find they've missed out. That will be fun, tee-hee!''
[/quote]
I can see them saying "That will be cheaper, tee-hee." Not
necessarily out of malice, but because someone has suggested it
as a way of cutting costs.
#Post#: 44686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Doing away with the wedding breakfast
By: TootsNYC Date: January 3, 2020, 9:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think it's more likely that they'd say, "the singles will be
doing the games on the floor, so what can we do to entertain the
people still at the tables? I know! shots of a fancy drink"
And then they've treated the groups differently.
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