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Bad Manners and Brimstone
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#Post#: 35434--------------------------------------------------
What do you owe someone for their time?
By: NyaChan Date: July 28, 2019, 11:54 am
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I was approached by a friend Kay about taking a trip in
December to anywhere warm. We agreed on a budget and traded a
couple of links to cruises and resorts we’ve each used
before. Suddenly I get added to a group chat with Kay and a
woman we met on an excursion last year on a group cruise. We
had “kept in touch” over FB with Stella (occasional
comments/sharing). I guess she was a travel agent or had become
a travel agent because Kay told her our plans and asked her for
help (also invited her if she were interested). I was
immediately a bit uncomfortable because this seemed like an
unnecessary favor to ask of her, but also a bit of pressure on
us. What if we don’t end up using her suggestions? That
seemed likely to me because Kay is particular about vacations
and I also knew that better deals on what Kay likes would come
out soon in stand-by offerings/Xmas in July sales.
Well Stella came back with a beautifully researched report,
options for different locations, operators, activities. Kay
let’s her know we are reviewing and will keep her updated.
And of course a week later Kay starts suggesting other Options
to me because the report didn’t include what I was pretty
sure she really wanted. We ultimately booked a cruise using the
sale I knew was coming out with her preferred cruise line just
yesterday. I figured since Kay was the one who dragged Stella
into it, she could talk to her about it. Today I’m woken
up by a barrage of text messages on the group chat as Stella and
Kay discuss what we decided. She is polite about it though a
bit miffed and even asks if we’ve already booked because
she can book it for us and get us some perks, but of course, it
is all done of as Kay put it “darn! Nyachan already put
down a deposit!” I feel bad for wasting her time. She
never mentioned payment but maybe she would have gotten a
deserved commission if we had communicated better about the
cruise we found? I’m not in touch with her in the real
life, but do I owe her more than an apology?
#Post#: 35441--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: pierrotlunaire0 Date: July 28, 2019, 2:12 pm
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I would say you owe her nothing more than the "Sorry." First of
all, Kay created this situation, you knew (or strongly
suspected) how it would turn out. Secondly, this is a cost of
doing business. Sometimes, you put a lot of work into a sale,
and it just doesn't happen. If Stella is a professional at this,
she should know this. And if she didn't, it's time she learned.
I probably sound very cold here, but this is not personal, just
business.
#Post#: 35442--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: lakey Date: July 28, 2019, 3:16 pm
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Since Kay was the one who got Stella involved in this, I would
stay out of it and let Kay handle it. Stella made some
suggestions and you and Kay decided to go with a different plan.
People who take cruises know that these pricing deals come
along, and when they do, you need to act fast in order to get
the stateroom you want at the best price. It's a business
decision that you made. I always feel that it is better to keep
personal relationships out of these things. I went on a number
of cruises with my sister, and because she worked for an
insurance company that also did travel, she insisted that we had
to do our arrangements through them. I know for a fact that we
did not get the best deals that we could have. I learned my
lesson. When you are purchasing something, leave your personal
relationships out of
If Stella asks you directly, just say, "We went in a different
direction." You don't owe her any more than that.
#Post#: 35445--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: gramma dishes Date: July 28, 2019, 5:31 pm
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I agree with what others have said, but I think if I were in
your shoes I'd be a little miffed at Kay for throwing you under
the bus like that! >:(
#Post#: 35448--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: NyaChan Date: July 28, 2019, 6:30 pm
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Oh I am a little miffed. Especially since Stella is now looking
up deals for the same cruise we already booked. I pointed out
privately to Kay that our deposit was non-refundable, and she
responded as if she was confused as to why Stella was still
doing research, but I checked their messages and all of her
responses are encouraging and sounding excited about the
possibility of Stella finding a better deal. And she again
threw it on me when Stella asked if she should book the new trip
saying “well let’s wait for NyaChan to decide, she has all the
booking details.” I did as you guys suggested and just forwarded
all the booking details to Kay and said to let me know what she
decides 8) Thank you!
#Post#: 35464--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: velly j Date: July 29, 2019, 1:34 am
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OP, you didn't do anything wrong at all. However, I think that
Kay is really pretty rude, both to you and to Stella. The fact
that she keeps stringing Stella along and then making you the
bad guy really doesn't sit well with me at all. Does she have a
habit of this kind of behaviour?
#Post#: 35467--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: Chez Miriam Date: July 29, 2019, 2:53 am
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I think you may (and only may) owe Stella a limited apology
"[I'm so sorry you wasted time on this"], but Kay owes you a big
explanation and an apology for blaming her decisions on you.
I think if anything else comes up in a chat where you're
involved [I don't really know how these things work :-[ ], I
would say something along the lines of "Kay, I was only doing
what you asked, are you now changing your mind?", so that Stella
realises it's Kay not NyaChan who is the picky one here/causing
unnecessary work for her.
If she keeps throwing you under the bus, I wouldn't see that as
throwing her under the bus, just redressing the balance of
'blame'/addressing who's really 'at fault' here.
At least you know in future to let Kay make any arrangements?
That way it will all be on her!
#Post#: 35479--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: DaDancingPsych Date: July 29, 2019, 8:39 am
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If you value Stella's friendship, I see no harm in offering an
apology and I might send a treat as a thank you for her work
(although it sounds like you are not in touch IRL.) None of this
is your doing, but that's simply how I like to run my
friendships. You would be perfectly fine to just let Kay deal
with the consequences, too. I might also point out to Kay the
work that Stella did and that in the future it might be more
caring as a friend to only call upon her services if we thought
there was a good chance that we would use her.
Stella is a professional. These situations happen. They are
disappointing, but sometimes the business does not pan out. It's
quite possible that she sees this as an investment for the
future. (You have now seen the detailed work that she does and
may consider her services in the future or even recommend her.)
It's also possible that she now knows that Kay can be a bit
flaky in travel plans and she may handle things differently with
her in the future. I suppose that it's also possible that she is
down right angry... which really says more about her as a
business woman and the many lessons that she needs to learn.
However, this last one does not sound like the case.
#Post#: 35482--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: Hmmm Date: July 29, 2019, 9:07 am
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I agree that Stella is a professional and put together the
proposal as a business, not personal offering. I'm sure she is
disappointed in losing out on the commission, but that is a
daily event for most people in sales jobs. It does not sound
like she ever said "and if you decide on a different trip, let
me know and I'll see if I can book you and get you upgrades or
accomodations." She has now learned that she should also offer
this so a a learning experience for her.
#Post#: 35485--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do you owe someone for their time?
By: bopper Date: July 29, 2019, 10:07 am
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"Stella, thank you so much for the info. One of our must haves
was "option" so we are going to go with the Bahama Cruise which
we have put a deposit down on. (and you could possible add "and
let us know if you are interested in that cruise.)
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